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Thank you guys. Please look me up when you come out.
QCRM

Gentlemen,
Hard to imagine as it may be to safety minded, experienced shooters, almost every day someone (or several someones) will cross the footbridge with a loaded, uncased firearm in their hand. I have had all manner of firearms pointed at me, many with live rounds in them. From pump shotguns to AR15s with the magazine in, a round in the chamber, and the man's finger on the trigger! The most frightening thing is that this young man was carrying the firearm for his disabled father and he didn't even know how to work the action or the safety, which by the way, was on fire. I asked him to allow me to remove the magazine and lock the action open and he pointed the rifle's muzzle straight at me (finger on the trigger) when he handed it to me. His father was incredulous that I would take the firearm from his son until I removed the magazine and pulled the charging handle and flipped a live round out over my shoulder. The father looked at me with deer in the headlights eyes and said "where did that come from?" My point being that I and the other RSOs are human and subject to human emotions. We get nervous from time to time because of incidents like the one I just described. Anyone would! I,for one, have been shot through the chest by the so called "unloaded firearm" and I was looking right at the muzzle when the weapon fired from 15 feet away. Do I get nervous sometimes? You bet I do!! My usual response to customers who say "it's unloaded" is "so was the last one that shot me".

I guess I'm just asking for a little understanding about the stresses and situations this job puts on all of us. Imagine as a customer, walking across the bridge and 30% of the shooters turning and pointing their muzzles directly at you! How long would you stay around a place like that without getting a little stressed? Might you do a little "screaming" yourself after a while? I'm not trying to excuse bad behavior on our part and I try to lead by example when I am on duty. By the way, I believe when you refer to the "old guy" you are probably talking about me. I am the oldest person presently working at the range. (I am not however the "old guy" mentioned on other threads on this forum. He is no longer an RSO for us!)

I get dozens of compliments every week about how safe and well run our range is. People come up and shake my hand and say "thank you" all the time. We have hundreds of "regular" customers who come out and shoot on a regular basis. That is what we are striving for every day. If there is ever an incident in which you feel you were treated incorrectly please look me up and talk to me. While we may not always agree on every situation, I will treat you as fairly as possible.
QCRM

Winchster
Thank you for posting about this incident. I'm sorry you had an unpleasant experience. I will follow up on this and see if corrective action needs to be taken.
QCRM

olafpfj,
I shoot my .50 Hawken at QCSR quite often. We welcome black powder shooters. However, Texas State law requires that we keep all rounds on our property so we do not take chances with high or low shots. Our requirement is that you must at least hit the target board. If you can do that at 100 yards you will be fine. If you have not shot the rifle at 100 yards before, the RSO may ask you to start off at the 50 yard just to be sure where the rifle shoots. Should you skip rounds or hit high on the berm at 100 yards, you will be asked to move to a shorter distance (50 yds).
QCRM
P.S. If it happens to be Thursday through Sunday please look me up (orange vest). I would like to see your Hawken. I am new to black powder and could use some tips!

Annoyed man,
So noted. I will mention your suggestion about the insurance to the owner. Beyond that I cannot say. Thank you for your suggestions.
QCRM

RoyGBiv,
I will try to address the issued you mentioned. As RSOs we are trained to be loud so that we can be heard in spite of customers hearing protection. While I am known for being very loud on the range, I do not shout because I am angry or trying to berate anyone. On occasion customers wear both ear plugs and muffs and cannot hear any of the range commands so we have to raise our voices to be heard. This may be taken as “being mean” by bystanders, but we have to communicate when someone is in violation of a safety rule. While stepping up to the bench during a cease fire may not seem like much of an infraction, I have had a customer pick up a 1911, slip in a magazine, and rack the slide all with other customers posting targets seven yards in front of him! This only took about two or three seconds! We have to react quickly and decisively or someone could be injured or killed. I am in complete agreement with you that not all infractions are quite as eminently dangerous as the one I mentioned, but almost all require immediate attention by the RSO. I am working to resolve which is which with our RSOs. However, we do, and always will, lean toward safety!
If, as you mentioned, our RSOs were inattentive and missed the fact that you were needing to put up a target when you were the only shooter at the range at the time, I apologize. However, all of our ranges go hot or cold at the same time and there may have been someone you didn’t see shooting at the other ranges during this time. We time our cease fires and it may have not been time for one yet. I’m sorry but just because you are the only shooter on the pistol range, does not mean you may violate the hot range rule. Sorry. If they went overboard in telling you about that, well I will talk to them about that as well as ask them to be more attentive.
As for the price of our ammunition, we do not have much of a markup at all and sell it for nearly what we pay for it. We cannot compete with giants like Wal-Mart or Cabelas and we do not try. We stock ammo for customer’s convenience should they need it. If you would like you can always leave and run to one of the large stores and return to shoot. Your range fee is for all day.
I do not work in the store and that department is under a different person so there is nothing I can do about what happens inside there. I hope the voucher offer was well intended because that is standard procedure when there is a conflict. They offer a “rain check”. For most people that seems to work for them. I’m glad you got your refund.
About the other man’s post, I did press for details and I was not trying to be obnoxious or accusatory. If I came across that way I apologize. I did so because I was almost sure this incident happened quite some time ago and I was correct. He provided the details and I was able to provide him an answer to his post. I had mentioned that things were changing at QCSR and while he may have meant well bringing up that issue in his post, it happened in 2008. There is nothing I can do about it at this time. I was not an employee of QCSR back then so I will not apologize for something like that now. There is only one employee at QCSR now that may have been working there in 2008 and he is not an RSO. All the others are gone.
Please do not be hesitant to come back out. Buy yourself some cheap HPs or SP at Wally world and come on back. Should you decide to come back out to the range please look me up (my vest is orange) and let me know who you are. I would like to hear your side of any confrontation and discuss the issues with you face to face. I believe conversation works best. Also a simple explanation of how and why we do things like we do may help smooth any ruffled feathers. That is the only way I can resolve things. That is my goal. I understand and support my co-workers because they have an extremely dangerous, difficult and frustrating job, but I also want fairness for all involved. None of us are perfect, but we are striving to be the best we can. As I said, a work in progress.

Annoyed man
I hope you understand that I am not trying to change your mind about you patronizing QCSR. I obviously cannot do that. I understand that you will not come back. However, in answering your complaint. Thank you for being more specific in your description of the incidents in question. As I thought they occurred quite some time ago and both of the employees are no longer employed at QCSR. In fact I only know of one employee who possibly was working at the range in 2008 and he is not an RSO. That should lay this issue to rest.
As far as the “ reputation suggestions” you mentioned,
1. Put the range under new ownership.
The range is private property and owned by private individuals. I can only assure you that the present owners are trying to “move Quail Creek forward” and provide a safe pleasant place to shoot. I believe in them and support them.
2. Fire anybody employed in 2008.
We don’t need to “fire anybody” because they are already gone. All of our current RSO are NRA certified RSOs.
3. Tell employees not to humiliate customers.
This is being done at this time. Our employees are reminded that they are expected to act in a professional manner when dealing with the public. One note: As you stated, you are a paying customer and we realize that fact, however some customers (not necessarily you) believe that by paying a range fee they “own” the range and the RSOs should not confront them. This will never be the case. Just like at any other shooting facility, customers must abide by QCSR rules or expect to be confronted by the RSOs.
4. Require RSOs to attend a CHL class.
All QCSR RSOs are Texas CHL holders in good standing and are trained in conflict resolution.
5. Insist in professionalism.
This is already being done. However, I will make the drive to Elm Fork and observe the RSOs there. If anything can be gained from the experience I will take steps to make it happen.
6. Educate the RSOs about the law.
The issue you mentioned was apparently quite some time ago also so I needn’t discuss it further. We welcome concealed carry patrons. Almost daily I allow CHL holders to un-holster their firearm and fire from the shooting bench then re-holster when they leave. We simply require that “concealed means concealed” while on the range. While we cannot allow drawing and firing, we only say anything if someone is open carrying their firearm or drawing to fire. Only Police officers are allowed to open carry with a clearly visible badge. Police officers are only allowed to draw and fire on the police range.
7. Allow FMJ ammunition.
This cannot be changed at this time. Perhaps you are uninformed of the current requirements of our insurance provider to allow FMJ ammunition on an outdoor range. These requirements have nothing to do with the berm or how the targets hang. Our insurance prohibits FMJ ammunition. End of argument. I cannot comment on what Elm Fork does with its ranges.

Sir,
Who was it that did that? What did he look like? When did it happen? What did he do with them if he "snatched" them from you? If he returned them to you then I'm hoping he thought you had them out for him to inspect. Many shooters do just that. Was the ammo in question FMJs and if so, why were they on the range where they are clearly prohibited or was it in the parking lot south of the footbridge? You were not specific. If you were on the range when this happened and the ammo in question was FMJs, did you misread or misunderstand the signs that you must have passed to get on the shooting part of the range? I need to know more information so that I can check into the issue. None of our current RSOs would do such a thing because they have been instructed otherwise so I'm guessing this happened a long time ago before my tenure as Range Master. Please be more specific in your post so that if the problem does still exists, I can address it with that individual RSO. If the employee is already gone from QCSR (and many are) then the issue should be considered a moot point. I will however use your post to remind the present RSOs of this issue.
I understand that you do not care to patronize our range because of things that have happened there in the past and that is fine. However if you find yourself in the area on any Thursday through Sunday, I would welcome a personal visit so that I can discuss these issues with you face to face. No forums. No one sided posts without any chance of dialogue or conversation. That is the only way I can address such issues and prevent them occurring again.

Although a work in progress, Quail Creek is a place changed for the better. I have been a customer there since 1995 and I too was put off by the treatment I got there in the past. That is why I will not tolerate ill treatment of our customers now that I find myself in a position to do something about it. Those rude employees are gone now and we are working to train all of the new ones what is expected of them in dealing with the public. If you won't give us a chance to prove ourselves by visiting us (me) again, then please, at least stop beating a dead horse and let others decide for themselves.
QCRM

The issue with pre-loaded magazines is that our insurance prohibits FMJ ammunition being used on our range. Using FMJs opens the entire range to liability that could cause the range to close down permenently. FMJ center fire RIFLE ammo only, not pistol ammo, is prohibited from even being present on the range. Any time the RSOs find it they instruct the shooter to return it to their vehicle prior to shooting. We NEVER confiscate or take possession of anyone's personal property (ammo) even when asked to do so by the shooter themselves! NEVER! Since a few shooters believe that by loading a couple of SP or HP ammo on top of a stack of FMJ will fool the RSOs, we have to check everyone's magazines. There are no less than four signs between where you pay your range fee and the shooting range stating that FMJ, tracers, etc. are not allowed. We have hundreds if not thousands of shooters that come to the range and follow the rules and they are not bothered one bit by the RSOs asking to see their ammunition. The range store maintains a stock of the most common calibers of rifle ammunition so people can get what they need if they should have prohibited ammunition after they arrive. If shooters elect not to purchase ammo from our store, that they can ether get a full refund or go somewhere else and buy ammo then return to shoot. The range fee is good for the whole day. We do not mind you leaving and returning.

In closing I would like to say "If you haven't been to Quail Creek in the last two years, you haven't been to Quail Creek"! The range is nothing like it used to be! While I can do nothing to correct something that may have happened five or ten years ago, the owners (and I) are determined to provide a safe, enjoyable place for people to shoot. The fact that whole families come out and spend an enjoyable day with us tells me that we are succeeding. If there are any issues please see me and I will address them.
QCRM