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philip964 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:30 am https://www.click2houston.com/news/loca ... olice-say/

George Floyd’s 4 yo niece was shot in Houston inside her apartment by a presumed drive by shooter.

Apparently all that settlement money was not spread around to all the family.

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/4-yea ... -years-day

Police Chief makes it all about Fire Department not responding in a timely manner.

Am I the only one who is wondering how a delayed fire department response (hours for EMS to get there) is a police department's internal affairs business? Or, was there a delay in police response also (which is implied by the mother driving the girl and father to the hospital) that the news did not bother to mention? I wonder why the police would be slow responding to a relative of George Floyd.

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:27 pm

philip964 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:06 am Instructions for White People in particular at George Floyd Plaza.

Free free at last.

Steve says that he would like to take a group to the Plaza. I would prefer to take these instructions to all facets of the black community's leaders to see how many of them sign onto the concepts expressed in them. I suspect it is like voter ID - the only people who are fighting the concept are the agitators, many of whom are white. I'm not for a moment suggesting that I support what Chavin did. But those rules suggest a level that I suspect that many (most?) blacks don't agree with. We can all disagree with the activities of some officers without taking it to forcing submissiveness out of all white people. I think that most people of color recognize that the extremes hurt, not help them.

I believe you are correct about the way most people dislike the extremes and do not support those positions. And I know I am getting more willing to respond to extreme positions by making extremely provoking responses, which is probably not a really helpful response.

But I am taking a lesson from the left about silence being violence. They are putting the pressure on people and companies that if you do not denounce something it means you agree and support it. Which is exactly what you were saying to do also. I just want to assume that since they have not already denounced it, then they support it. Yours is the more rational answer and one I normally would go for or suggest. I am getting a lot more fed up with the left as the days go by and getting more willing to respond in ways that may be wrong.

And yes, I do know how the MSM would portray me if I did take a group up there. Remembering "don't start a revolution are not sure you will win" is what is keeping me in check right now. I am not sure how much longer that will work.

philip964 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:06 am Instructions for White People in particular at George Floyd Plaza.

I saw that and my first temptation was to gather a bunch of like minded friends of all races to go up there and hold a nice raucous party on that corner. I know it is looking for trouble and probably not a good idea and maybe even wrong, but it is tempting anyway.

Killadocg23 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:05 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:36 pm

philip964 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:05 pm Picture of our new American hero chewing gum during his arrest.

I have not verified the photo for accuracy. I cannot also verify what flavor of gum.

That is not gum. That is his drug stash that killed him. He was attempting to get rid of evidence. He was successful. He hid it in his dead body.

What CREDIBLE source are you getting this information from and for God Sakes please don’t say FOX NEWS.

I am genuinely curious.

Here is one story where the defense attorney found partially chewed drugs with Floyd's DNA in the back of the patrol car that was involved:

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/cri ... 9b867cc489

Not Fox News. This combined with the drug levels the autopsy reports show in his body lead me to believe that it was not gum he was chewing. Of course, I do consider the prior arrest for his doing this to conceal evidence to show his tendency. The judge ruled that the prior arrest and behavior is not admissible in this trial do to its prejudicial potential.

Grayling813 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:32 am Propaganda Schedule 2020:
January: Orange Man Bad, everything he does/says/touches...bad, bad, bad
February: Repeat January. Revision: Begin Coronavirus campaign
March through late May: Coronavirus campaign continues, Continue Orange Man Bad, everything he does/says/touches...bad, bad, bad
Late May: Begin Systemic racism campaign, Continue Orange Man Bad, everything he does/says/touches...bad, bad, bad
June through???: Systemic racism campaign continues, Continue Orange Man Bad, everything he does/says/touches...bad, bad, bad

Minor correction

Killadocg23 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:51 am So what I am gathering is the officer that had his knee on this gentlemens neck had nothing to do with his death is what some of you are saying? Quick question. If the officer didnt have his knee on his neck would you think Mr George would have died that day and still be alive to this day during that incident? Or he still would have died regardless?

I believe that if Off. Chauvin had never been involved in the scene at all, and the other three officers had managed to subdue and restrain Mr. Floyd (with no one on his neck), he would be just as dead as in what actually did happen. What Mike S reported as positional asphyxiation is well known to police officers, as is a cause of death called excited delirium. My training would have separated those out a little more than I think Mike did in his post, but the end result is the same.

Excited delirium is usually caused by a combination of an overdose of drugs, excessive adrenaline from fighting with the police, and mental illness. The way it was explained to me at one autopsy was that the drugs caused the heart rate to increase. The adrenaline then also caused the heart rate to increase even further. The exertion of fighting with the police increased it even further. Eventually, the heart rate increases more than the human heart can take.

Here is an article that explains excited delirium, if anyone is interested in learning more. It is a little different than what I said, but I am not medically trained.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3088378/

Based on my patrol experience, I do not believe Mr. Floyd would have survived even if the officers had started performing CPR the second he stopped struggling. I believe the worst thing the officers (as a team) did is notice he did not have a pulse and not take any action to resuscitate him immediately. I don't think it would have done any good, but it would have been more in line with their job to preserve life if they had.

Killadocg23 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:46 am Independent/Private autopsy report says George Floyd died from asphyxiation..... interesting (even though we figured that all along). Was somebody trying to cover for the cops during that first autopsy CNN posted?

Independent autopsy also says there is no evidence in the body of the neck compression because it disappears as soon as the compression is released. So how does he know it killed him?

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:06 pm I am a little surprised by that autopsy result. Is asphyxia hard to determine or were Minneapolis officials trying to soften this issue up a little?

I always thought it was easy, but that is because I am used to handling strangulation caused by pressure on the front of the neck. My question is if you can strangle a person with just pressure on the back of the neck.

This article explains more of it:

https://www.tasanet.com/Knowledge-Cente ... phyxiation

parabelum wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 12:14 pm2. There seems to be too many incompetent officers these days wearing the badge. Hiring process must be scrutinized and training standards clearly have to go up.

I am not sure that this has anything to do with this case, but one incompetent officer is too many. We need to improve the standards for hiring and retention. This has a couple of problems people need to be aware of. First is the obvious, good people cost more money. I am not saying cops are paid poorly everywhere, but we have some places in Texas where a full time patrol officer is still paid $30,000/year. They are rural, which actually raises the cost of living a little bit. This makes it much harder to get good cops there, with the only lucky side to this being that major problems rarely occur in rural areas.

The second problem is that it is much harder to find good people who want to be cops today. With the current media vilification of police, the best no longer want the job. This feeds into getting incompetent cops who make dumb mistakes which feeds into helping the media vilify cops as all bad. We need to break that cycle. I have no faith in the media changing the way they report the news (if it bleeds, it leads), so this is dependent on the police to improve standards and training. But that requires the local citizenry to be willing to pay for the better people and to communicate to the elected officials that they standards and training must be raised with the taxes. If we just throw money at the problem, it will not get better. We must throw some money at it, but we also must insist on better hiring and training instead of letting the agencies waste the money.

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 8:10 amThanks for posting this link. I have a question. It says

The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m.

Why would they do that? If Floyd was being arrested and was already in the squad car, why wouldn't he just be taken to jail? I've never understood why, once a subject has been constrained, they are not promptly driven away. This seems even more important if there is a crowd gathering. If they have decided not to make an arrest, telling the subject about that decision and removing the handcuffs seems appropriate.

I am not sure why they did it, but I can think of two possible reasons. The one most likely to apply to this case is that he continued to fight while in the car, either trying to hurt himself or damage the vehicle. In the example I posted way back in the thread, I had one prisoner kick the door, bending the door frame and breaking both the window and his ankle (compression fracture). If he had started kicking the officer could have pulled him out to prevent damage to the car while waiting for a different type of vehicle (paddy wagon or van) to transport.

The seconnd possibility is that he managed to keep his legs straight so they could not close the second door or get him in a seated position to belt in. Since he was fighting being put in the car, as the officer went to the other side to pull him in, he may have started kicking and keeping them from closing the door. In a case like that, the officer pulling him in, might have pulled him further than he thought so they could close the door, then if he fights getting put in a sitting position, he ends up with his head and shoulders out of the car. Pulling him all the way out to wait for the other transport may be the best solution at that point also.

But those are just example of things that might have caused it. I don't know for sure why he did it.

In several posts in this thread and another, I said I did not know enough about the incident in question and suggested we wait for a full investigation. I pointed out that the firing of the officers and threatening state and federal charges would not be the right thing to get them to cooperate. The officer with his knee on the man's neck was arrested and bail was set at $500,000. The attachment to this post is the affidavit for arrest and lists their probable cause. Interestingly enough, it cites the preliminary autopsy report. There is no completed full autopsy report yet.

For those who are sure the video tells enough to make up your minds, I strongly suggest you read this. I am more convinced than ever that we need to wait for a full investigation before making up our minds, especially when the media is reporting it the way they tend to.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 3:40 pm I think maybe you have not seen some of the videos of this situation. There is a video of him handcuffed and sitting on the ground just after they removed him from his car. They stood him up and were walking him to the police car when the cop who choked him out exited his car and came running up to him from behind. I have not seen the video of them attempting to place him in the police car. That would be the only point left where he may have resisted. Even if he had resisted getting in the car, it does not justify an 8 minute choke on his carotid artery.Four of which he was unconscious. I'm afraid all the evidence shows the good guys were not good this time. Video does not lie.

My point about the resisting or running was that a normal call like that is for two officers to handle. To get four officers on the scene, there was something else going on. Backup was called at some point. The conspiracy theory post was saying they never called for anything and the ambulance just showed up all on its own.

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. Video does lie. Well, maybe not lie but does mislead. CNN says the preliminary autopsy report shows that the knee did not cause any injury or strangulation. The big question to ask yourself is if you can tell how much pressure he is putting on the man just from the video. Was it actually pressing on the carotid? Or across some other part of the neck.

philip964 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 11:18 am This was posted on line that it was a false flag event staged to solidify black voters against Trump.

Apparently a fake Facebook account with fake friends appeared for the neck police officer with Trump 2020 posts afterwards.

I haven’t verified any of this.

It is mostly garbage with a few minor true points thrown in. For example, there is a line in it that says no department anywhere teaches the neck restraint like that, but a copy of the Minneapolis policies on neck restraints has been published on Facebook that specifically defines that type of restraint.

They say the officers are not talking to Floyd or calling for backup or anything else. But you can't see or hear the other two officers to know what they are saying or doing. someone must have called for the ambulance because they don't just show up out of nowhere.

The license say POLICE because that is how Minnesota identifies every police car. They don't get individual plates. This is similar to Texas allowing cars to drive with a plate that says "EXEMPT PLATES APPLIED FOR".

I have full faith that this was the arrest of a suspect who had either just committed forgery (some reports say this was the call) or attempted to pass a counterfeit 20 (I saw one or two articles saying this was the call). I am sure he resisted arrest (or at least tried to run) or there would not have been four officers there to begin with.

And I am sure the investigation will go no where fast because they already fired the officers and said they will be charged at both state and federal levels, so there is no incentive for any of them to cooperate at all.

philip964 wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 12:14 pmSo in Texas at least, doing something to someones neck is a big no no.

While this section probably needs to be expanded, it is only for family violence.

Sec. 22.01. ASSAULT.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another, including the person's spouse;
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse; or
(3) intentionally or knowingly causes physical contact with another when the person knows or should reasonably believe that the other will regard the contact as offensive or provocative.
(b) An offense under Subsection (a)(1) is a Class A misdemeanor, except that the offense is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed against:
(1) a person the actor knows is a public servant while the public servant is lawfully discharging an official duty, or in retaliation or on account of an exercise of official power or performance of an official duty as a public servant;
(2) a person whose relationship to or association with the defendant is described by Section 71.0021(b), 71.003, or 71.005, Family Code, if:
(A) it is shown on the trial of the offense that the defendant has been previously convicted of an offense under this chapter, Chapter 19, or Section 20.03, 20.04, 21.11, or 25.11 against a person whose relationship to or
association with the defendant is described by Section 71.0021(b), 71.003, or 71.005, Family Code; or
(B) the offense is committed by intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly impeding the normal breathing or circulation of the blood of the person by applying pressure to the person's throat or neck or by blocking the person's nose or mouth;

EDIT: Sorry, I tired to format it to make the law easier to read with the proper indention but the forum software took it out. Basically, the law says causing someone an injury is a class A misdemeanor unless a family member chokes or strangles someone, which makes it a third degree felony.