TexasCHLforum.com

casingpoint wrote:The manufacturer of the taser has issued a warning to buyers not to apply the weapon to the chest area. Probably that is related to this:

Since June 2001, more than 351 individuals in the United States have died after being shocked by police Tasers.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-righ ... id=1021202" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nope, it is in response to finding out what works best. Here is one explanation of the advice (not truly a warning either):
http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Weapon ... eting.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some day, some cop is going to pull a taser on a suspect, who is going to pull a gun on the cop and a court is going to find the suspect's action was done in self defense. I can't view the video, but this sounds like one of those days:
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/ ... _traf.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, let's look at that from the other point of view. The officer felt she was breaking the law and stopped her. She demanded evidence and argued with him at the scene, which is not the place for either of those. She got out of the car and refused to obey his instructions until she was told she was under arrest (by her testimony in the video). Then she gets in the car and refuses to exit, fighting with the officer when he tries to place her under arrest. He tases her and it doesn't affect her (she says she felt the shock but it did not bothe rher, so he tases her again and she drops to her knees. Then she tries to get up again while he is trying to handcuff her.

I cannot speak as to the stop itself, but I saw a clear cut case of resisting arrest. In Texas, the arrest was clearly a legal arrest also. Was the arrest the proper thing to do? I can't say because I wasn't there. I probably would have let her get into the car when she did and not gone any further witht he arrest unless she did more, but each officer has his own limit on where he cuts off and lets someone go and where he arrests.

My question to everyone who thinks the officer was wrong is what else would you have him do. Consider this carefully. Do you want officers enforcing the law or not? What limits do you want on their authority? How much does a person get to argue with officers and refuse to obey instructions before it is an arrestable offense? These are critical questions to consider and they are more of what the debate should be than the tool used. We are really discussing the overall use of force and not the tool. Remember when you consider this that Texas makes all traffic offenses criminal offenses. Not every state does, but this means that the offenses in the Penal Code that are also class C misdemeanors are going to be treated the same way.That thief who just stole $49 worth of your poperty from your front porch has just committed the same grade of offense as your failure to obey the stop sign.

What is really interesting in the report from the UK is that they quote the 9th Circuit decision a little differently than we have seen it reported in the states. Note that they say the court ruled it as less-lethal, just more painful than other methods so they think it should have a higher standard. They also note that the injuries the man received were from the fall, not the taser. This has always been well known, falls can cause injuries. As well known is that tasers can cause falls (well, they are almost designed to).

But if the 9th circuit is correct in their ruling, the Taser is still less-lethal. The standards of force have always been lethal requires more justification than non-lethal force. And the higher a possibility of injury requires more justification also.

So, which would you rather be hit with, a steel pipe or the taser? After all, the choices the officer has that are both considered less lethal are the ASP baton (or similar styles from other brands), the OC spray, and the taser. Officers generally do not use OC in a one on one fight since they stand a chance of getting hit by the overspray and they have to clean up the suspect before putting him in the car. And an ASP baton is just a piece of steel pipe than can collapse and be carried easily.

Sorry guys, but my money is still on allowing officers to carry and use tasers as before. The rules on use of force and use of deadly force have not changed and do not need to be. The taser fits right in there where it should. I see no reason for a change at all.