I think we agree on most of this, Casingpoint. We might have a disagreement about the use of force to move the person off the property. I agree that if I use force to knock him to the ground and he falls off the property, my legal use of force stops then. I agree I cannot use force if he leaves when he is told to.
But, if he will not leave when told too, I can use force to end the trespass. The only way to end the trespass is to make him leave the property. If I do this by punching him until he decides to leave, that is one way. But there is nothing to say I have to use that type of force. If I grab his arm and start pulling him towards the door, this is force to end the trespass.
I guess if I cannot convince you after this, we can agree to disagree.
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Return to “How much authority do Security Guards have?”
- Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:52 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: How much authority do Security Guards have?
- Replies: 58
- Views: 6966
- Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:05 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: How much authority do Security Guards have?
- Replies: 58
- Views: 6966
Re: How much authority do Security Guards have?
Casingpoint,
There is a specific law allowing force to terminate a trespass. It is section 9.41 of the Penal Code:
Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
The security guard would be in lawful possession of the property. Asking a person to leave and his refusing constitutes trespass. Removing him by the reasonable amount of force is how the guard would terminate the trespass.
There is a specific law allowing force to terminate a trespass. It is section 9.41 of the Penal Code:
Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
The security guard would be in lawful possession of the property. Asking a person to leave and his refusing constitutes trespass. Removing him by the reasonable amount of force is how the guard would terminate the trespass.
- Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:58 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: How much authority do Security Guards have?
- Replies: 58
- Views: 6966
Re: How much authority do Security Guards have?
In answer to the original poster, a security officer in Texas has the exact same authority as any other person that is not a peace officer or a federal special investigator. They may make any citizen's arrest that you can. If they are making a lawful arrest, and you resist, you cannot be charged with resisting arrest. You may be charged with assault or even aggravated assault, depending on any injuries they might receive and any weapons you use.
The offenses you may arrest for (citizen's arrest) are contained in Code of Criminal Procedure section 14.01 (felonies or any offense against the public peace committed in your presence or view) and in section 18.16 (preventing the consequences of a theft). There are lots of tricks in these sections, such as not defining what is meant by against the public peace (all crimes are committed against the peace and dignity of the state, according to how an arrest warrant reads).
As was pointed out, this is why so many companies end up settling suits for unlawful detention or false arrest. The guards are not trained properly.
Any person acting with the apparent authority of the owner may ask you legally to leave the premises. A security guard in uniform is going to have the apparent authority, in my opinion. In plain clothes, after identifying himself, the authority may still be debated since the position itself may be debated.
On one of the other topics being discussed, I have to admit that I have never been a big fan of the mega church concept. I like the idea of neighborhood churches where the pastor knows the people in the congregation, the people know each other, and people develop a sense of community with each other. Based on that, combined with the church attitude of taking the word of the guard, I would also recommend finding a new church. Of course, I also know there may be other reasons you like this church and neither of these may eb the deciding factor for you.
My last point is the fact that I have always seen it as a sad commentary on our society when churches need locks, alarms, or security guards. I have always thought a church should be open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, for people to come in and pray. My needs don't seem to fit the church hours sometimes. I recognize that my wish is unrealistic for today's world, but it is how I feel.
The offenses you may arrest for (citizen's arrest) are contained in Code of Criminal Procedure section 14.01 (felonies or any offense against the public peace committed in your presence or view) and in section 18.16 (preventing the consequences of a theft). There are lots of tricks in these sections, such as not defining what is meant by against the public peace (all crimes are committed against the peace and dignity of the state, according to how an arrest warrant reads).
As was pointed out, this is why so many companies end up settling suits for unlawful detention or false arrest. The guards are not trained properly.
Any person acting with the apparent authority of the owner may ask you legally to leave the premises. A security guard in uniform is going to have the apparent authority, in my opinion. In plain clothes, after identifying himself, the authority may still be debated since the position itself may be debated.
On one of the other topics being discussed, I have to admit that I have never been a big fan of the mega church concept. I like the idea of neighborhood churches where the pastor knows the people in the congregation, the people know each other, and people develop a sense of community with each other. Based on that, combined with the church attitude of taking the word of the guard, I would also recommend finding a new church. Of course, I also know there may be other reasons you like this church and neither of these may eb the deciding factor for you.
My last point is the fact that I have always seen it as a sad commentary on our society when churches need locks, alarms, or security guards. I have always thought a church should be open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, for people to come in and pray. My needs don't seem to fit the church hours sometimes. I recognize that my wish is unrealistic for today's world, but it is how I feel.