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BTW, there were far fewer abortions prior to Roe. One of the functions of the law particularly in our society is to tell people that an activity is morally wrong. Usually just making an activity illegal reduces that activity even if not vigorously enforced.

by pbwalker » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:36 am
It's amazing to see the hypocrisy in a large population of the gun community when it comes this. "The government should't tell us what kind go of guns we can shoot or own. They just need to leave us alone and stay out of our lives! Oh, except for women...we need the government intruding in their lives. It's for the children..."

Actually my position is very consistent and is not at all hypocritical. The 2nd Amendment was based in part on the underlying right to self defense, i.e. protecting innocent life. That is very pro-life.
My anti-abortion stance is based on protecting the lives of the most innocent among us. Again pro-life.
And my support for the death penalty is based on taking dangerous people out of society and to deter others who would also engage in murder. Thus the death penalty protects innocent life. So again pro-life.
And my support for small government and capitalism is that both produce much better economics for far more of the population than do big government and socialism. Again in my view pro-life.

The problem with many libertarians is that they see only one principle as valid, that being that their personal liberty rises above all. Sorry, I don't buy that.

recaffeination » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:08 pm

mamabearCali wrote:
You vote for whomsoever you want to, however I have to stand before a holy God someday. I cannot and will not stand before him and say "sorry I thought the deficit was more important than the lives of children".

I'm intrigued by this comment. There are children dying, particularly in third world countries, because they don't have clean water, enough food, vaccinations and other medical care. Is cable television or Internet access more important than their lives? A nice house and car? Toys for you kids instead of life for others?

I personally hold myself responsible only for my own actions. I don't feel responsible for bad parents who have children without being able to support and care for their children. I also don't feel responsible if someone chooses to have an abortion. So my views are consistent but I puzzle over how others draw the line about which innocent lives are worth more than money/possessions and which ones aren't.

I can't take care of the whole world but I have done things to help the poor in this country and others. I have also done things to fight abortion. I probably haven't done enough in either area, but my views are consistent also.

by talltex » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:22 pm

mamabearCali wrote:
[Let me refer you to the HHS mandate which requires businesses even those run by staunch Christians to pay for abortifacients. So there are federal laws mandating that employers play for employees abortifacient drugs.

Not all "staunch Christians" share your exact views on this or other social issues. Christianity and morality are not the same thing. There are many types of Christians with many varied beliefs. If all of us Christians believed exactly the same things there wouldn't be dozens of denominations in every little town. My personal beliefs are none of the government's, or anyone else's business, and I don't want either group to make my decisions on them for me. I vote for fiscally conservative candidates regardless of their personal statements on those issues because their INDIVIDUAL feelings are just that, and not binding on me

So I guess you don't vote based on candidates gun control positions either???

Gun control is also a social issue. And the Supreme Court recently held that there can be reasonable limits placed on our right to bear arms. So I guess if social issues are a problem, we need to give up on gun control also.

Like mamabear, abortion is a hill I will live and die on. We have killed 55 million of our own kids since abortion was made legal. Do you realize that is about as many people as Stalin killed and far more than Hitler killed.

One of the reasons Romney lost is because a bunch of people stayed home. I don't have any statistics but I expect they were evangelical Christians who didn't trust him on abortion and libertarians who didn't trust him on spending control. We need both of those groups to win. We can't win by blowing either one of them off.