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I've had some time to think on this stuff so far...And it brings up additional questions...

Has the Dod run out of money where they cannot budget for the refurbishment of 2700 vehicles and recycle them back into operational status???

And it took the DHS to step in and put their own money into this deal???

What strings were attached to that expenditure??? I cannot for the life of me imagine that there were NO strings attached in that contract...We're talking about mega millions, possibly a billion here and there for the money that was spent on that contract...It has to be...

I thought that we had this all confirmed at one point recently (I was incorrect, muh bad), and that further clarification from the source is not forthcoming...I have to wonder why???

If all of this turns out to be a bunch of bunk, then fine, I can dig it, but to not get credible information where everyone is on the same page is unacceptable in my book, and it shouldn't be accepted by anyone else!!!

BTW, I am not really this paranoid, and I do not believe everything I see on the internet, and I am not dating a French model I met on the internet either...

I'm going to shut up about this for now...No use in beating a dead horse, not a lot of people seem to care enough about the negative potential of this issue...

Regards...

donkey wrote:Every story about this points to the the USMC contract with Navistar.

Ignoring the fact that the contract is for the USMC not DHS, let's consider the facts.

That contract was to refurbish 2717 MaxxPro MRAPs and was completed in May 2012.

This is a MaxxPro made by Navistar:
[ Image ]

This is a Golan made by Rafael: NOT a MaxxPro
[ Image ]

This is an Alpha made by Oshkosh: NOT a MaxxPro
[ Image ]

There are no photos of MaxxPro MRAPs in use by DHS. All those photos are of Golans and Alphas, neither of which are produced by Navistar. So it seems as if that USMC contract really was for the USMC.

The Golans and Alphas were orginally purchased by the DOD (100 Alphas, 60 Golans). After initial testing and evaluation, it was found that these vehicles would not work for the military and no further orders were placed. The vehicles already purchased were withdrawn from service and declared surplus at which point some were transferred to law enforcement agencies. This is nothing new. The military has transferred armored vehicles, rifles, body armor and even helicopters to federal, state, and local law enforcement in the past. (Check out DRMO and LESO from the Defense Logistics Agency).

This is actually an excellent comparison post!!! Good job Donkey!!! You pointed out some distinct differences in the vehicles pictured in various sources, again good job...

The only corrolation, I found, to the word "refurbished" was used in an amplifying article talking about this turreted M1117 vehicle used by the Marine Corp, talking about refurbishing 400+ of those vehicles to be used by the DHS, in addition to the aquisition of the 2700+ MRAP vehicles...Putting those numbers together creates an overall concern that demands some sort of confirmation...

Some of us are asking questions, only in the desire to confirm the purchase of this equipment...I have family doing what they can (as voting constituents) to confirm this from a US congressmans office (who happens to be on the full Finance Committee in the House of Representatives...He has confirmed the purchase of the ammunition we have all heard about, we have also asked about the 7000+ Personal Defense Weapons purchased by the same department, and all these armored vehicles...Once we get absolute confirmation about these "other" purchases, then we can proceed to the next step...If the purchases can be debunked, then that may very well be the end of it, as far as I, and many others are concerned...

I agree, lets cool off, see what info comes our way...

One thing is for sure, there is a lot of flak out there to fly through, and a lot of mis and disinformation flying around out there as well, which tells me something sure is trying to stir the emotional side of this issue on both sides!!!

I think its great we are talking about this, and we should, and are entitled to answers...And we need to be sure they come from credible sources...

I admit, I may have gotten caught up in some of the nonsense, but I'm still sorting this all out...

@anygunanywhere...

I just read the Charles Johnson's (little green footballs) blog about this being a fake story about the "tanks"...

I guess to put this mildly, that if a senior congressman who is on the US Congressional Finance Committee (Jeb Hensarling) can confirm these purchases, then I have to wonder where Charles Johnson is basing his claims on...

anygunanywhere wrote:Some site called "Little Green Footballs" is spinning that the MRAPs are for the Marine Corps.

Anygunanywhere

I am familiar with that blog site...Fairly good and timely info...But I believe they are mistaken...Yes, some of those vehicles were slated for the Marines, and were utilized in theater ops...Specifically, the 400+ M1117's that are being "refurbished" from those operations are being transferred to the DHS from the other reports...These MRAP's I have seen were totally bought and paid for for the DHS "army"...I will certainly go to Green Footballs and see what they found out...no problem...

Bottom line:

We need to connect these dots, and those who are most able to do that are elected to offices, where we should expect them to get to the bottom of these things...

Are you still in Pete Olsen's district??? I still get the impression he is still looking like a deer in the headlights on this issue...

If it's Steve Stockman, you have an easy sell on this, if its Randy Weber (US-14), then that may be even easier...

I remember him (Randy) and I working together as Precinct Chairs on CD22 stuff back in the day...He is very much on our side of the issue...

...A DHS Spokesman confirmed with Business Insider...

See, they knew this might not stay under the radar for very long, and now they are circling the wagons and lying to those in the media not letting this issue go away...

Only 16??? hehehe, what a crock...

chasfm11 wrote:From the link in Stevie_d_64's post

An earlier version of this post included a figure of over 2,700 vehicles, as cited from the original RT link. This figure likely comes from a press release from Navistar Defense, mentioning delivery of 2,717 to the U.S. Marine Corps. A DHS Spokesman confirmed with Business Insider that they have only 16 nationwide.

16 of these vehicles in DHS's hands is bad enough. We do need to get to the bottom of how such purchases are being made. Like others, I've written to my Federal representatives and asked them to specifically look into this matter. I'm not optimistic. When you combine the ammo purchases, the drones and now these, one has to really stretch the imagination to believe it is anything but a problem for the law abiding American people.

I'm not going to ask who your US congressman is, it is up to you to contact them and ask these questions...Keep the pressure on and expect a timely answer!!!

The more of those folks we light a fire under the more this issue will stay on the front burner up there...

I would love for them to turn this into a wonderful waste of tax dollars and manpower at the end of the day...And hang it like a noose around the necks of those who have alterior motives...

Don't forget the drones which will be utilized to provide overwatch and are now cleared to kill American citizens, in some cases, domestically...According toi the US Attorney General (who has been impeached, but not removed from that office)...that news came in yesterday...Maybe some here might have noticed that as well...

Another update...Some in the media are starting to wake up...

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorial ... es.htm?p=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For the record, I have asked the question of my US Congressman, my Dad's Congressman, and our new Jr. Senator Mr. Cruz...Who's offices have taken this issue and started to ask questions...

The one thing that has not been stated in these discussions is how can these purchases be conducted with little or no debate, no oversight to the point of public knowledge of this activity till now???

Very simple...

When the government operates on NO budget, or budgets submitted, but unable to pass into implementation, then this is what you get...Emergency spending measures ("year end", government shutdown fears) which we have seen over the last few years have enabled elements (department's) within our government to sock away funds for this very purpose, with little or no congressional oversight...Thats how we are in the predicament we are in now...

All of these purhcases have been confirmed by Jeb Hensarling's office...In addition, there are 400+ M1117's which have been refurbished and will be added to the count of MRAP's in the original story...(Look these babies up...You'll love the turret that comes standard with these things) So it is not just the 2,700+ MRAP's, it is supplemented with these vehicles as well...

So what we have here is a manuevering "army" of at least the strength of 4-5 divisions with mobility, arms and ammunition to do the bidding of off nominal DoD control and constraints...Reporting to only the DHS secretary, and the President of the United States...A very short chain of command if you ask me...

It may take another year or so to fully field these units/teams within our borders, but seeing how they already have a sham of a mission to assist local law enforcement in supporting "trouble" warrants, (a nice cover story), the more of these that are formed up and fielded, the less we will probably hear about them till they are revealed for their as yet, and obvious, purpose...

And these units will not go away, until they are defunded, by whom??? Good question...

So the guanstlet has been thrown down, the intent is clear with their presense...And we have only begun to scratch the surface in their purpose, even though we have some pretty smart people figuring this out already...

I would suggest that each of us press our congressional reps to get dirty with this right now...What else are they going to do??? right??? they have failed to stop the fiscal insanity of the majority and administrations effort to create this economic environment, and now it is readily apparent they wish to create a social environment that is teetering on the brink of chaos, which they (government/administration) are preparing to be able to swoop in and quell...

It is a win/win for them, and yet, when the "quelling" is done, what will get these unit/teams to stand down???

If you have the answer to that, I would love to hear it, because the congressional offices I have contacted don't have a frappin' clue!!!

If this issue is not enough to get folks like us fired up and expecting those we put in there to represent us, and keep the fight within those houses, then I don't know what else it takes...Better to be there than in the streets, which at that time it is too late...

Think about it...This is NOT a tin-foil cap, or black helicopters conspiracy issue anymore, never was, never will be...Their position/intent is clear...