Search found 5 matches

by casingpoint
Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:38 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Open Carry?
Replies: 87
Views: 11835

Re: Open Carry?

I do not believe OC is necessary
While once commonplace, OC is no longer so in Texas, being illegal. The current custom of concealed carry may well establish the legal standard today.

Citing SCOTUS in Heller, such things may determined by custom:
"Whatever the reason, handguns are the most popular weapon chosen by Americans for self-defense in the home, and a complete prohibition of their use is invalid."

Whether the right to concealed carry can be regulated is another issue which the SCOTUS did not address in depth beyond banning carry by crazies and in certain critical public places and government buildings.
by casingpoint
Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:46 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Open Carry?
Replies: 87
Views: 11835

Re: Open Carry?

There certainly was a lot of info in that link posted by joe817.
http://www.guncite.com/journals/haltex.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Buried in a footnote was a link to interesting language about concealed weaponry. It echoes my bone of contention for a long time that obtaining a concealed carry license is too expensive for some penurious individuals and thereby deprives them of the right and means to self defense, making the law unconstitutional on it face. It was interesting to see it already hashed out, and so long ago. How did it all go so wrong?


Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394 (1859).

It is contended, that article 610 of the penal code, is in violation both of the state and federal constitution, which contain substantially the same provision, securing the citizen from any infringement on the right to keep and bear arms. 1st. It is asserted that any law prohibiting a citizen from keeping or bearing any knife, which is intended to be worn upon the person, which is capable of inflicting death, and not commonly known as a pocket-knife, would be unconstitutional. To prohibit absolutely the keeping and having of an ordinary weapon, is certainly to infringe on the right of keeping and bearing arms. A bowie-knife or dagger, as defined in the code, is an ordinary weapon, one of the cheapest character, accessible even to the poorest citizen. A common butcher-knife, which costs not more than half a dollar, comes (p.396)within the description given of a bowie-knife or dagger, being very frequently worn on the person. To prohibit such a weapon, is substantially to take away the right of bearing arms, from him who has not money enough to buy a gun or a pistol.

It has been held, that even a law prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons, is unconstitutional. Bliss v. Commonwealth, 2 Litt. 90. The court there say, that whatever restrains the full and complete exercise of the right, is in violation of the constitution. Such laws have, however, been sustained in other states. See State v. Reid, 1 Ala. 612; State v. Mitchell, 3 Blackf. 229; Nunn v. State, 1 Kelly, 243. The attention of the court is particularly called to the case of Nunn v. State, as bearing more directly on the proposition above asserted. The legislature of Georgia had passed a law, prohibiting the keeping, sale, or carrying of certain kind of knives or pistols. Judge Lumpkin held it to be unconstitutional, in so far as it prohibited the carrying of a pistol (or other weapon) openly. It is held, also, in that case, that the provision in the constitution of the United States, is applicable to state legislation.

2d. If the last proposition be conceded, it follows, that it is equally unconstitutional to prohibit the use of such a weapon in a proper case. The right to keep and bear, implies the right, on a proper emergency, to use. In the case of State v. Reid, 1 Ala. 612 (above cited), it is said, that a statute requiring arms to be worn in such a manner as to render them wholly useless, for the purpose of self-defense, would be clearly unconstitutional. Were the legislature to pass a law, inflicting a penalty for the use of a bowie-knife or dagger, in self-defense, it is believed that it would be unconstitutional, because of its infringement on the right to keep and bear arms, and on the inalienable right of self-defense.

3d. It is contended that article 610 of the penal code, is an attempt, indirectly, to prohibit the keeping, bearing, or use of a bowie-knife, or dagger, and is, therefore, unconstitutional. What other object could the law have in view, but to prohibit this weapon? Upon what other principle can its enactment be (p.397)justified, than that the use of a bowie-knife is in itself wrong, and that it is a weapon to be prohibited? What is it, in effect, but an effort, indirectly, to prohibit the keeping, bearing, or use of such knives? It is believed, that there is no difference in principle, between a law, making the use of a bowie-knife criminal, and a law discriminating against the use of a bowie-knife, by affixing a higher penalty to its use, than to the same act committed with any other deadly weapon. Substantially, this is to affix a penalty to the use of that weapon. This discrimination is but a form of prohibition. The right to discriminate against, implies the right to prohibit. Both rights are based on the unconstitutional ground, that the legislature can control the keeping, bearing, and use of this weapon. But the legislature cannot do indirectly, that which it has no power to do directly. See Thomas v. State, 9 Tex. 324.
http://www.guncite.com/court/state/24tx394.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
by casingpoint
Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:35 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Open Carry?
Replies: 87
Views: 11835

Re: Open Carry?

Yes, Coastie, they're all gone according to yahoo! yellow pages-Youngbloods, Martins BBQ, Ralphs Pizza, Kountry Kitchen. Replaced, no doubt, by the likes of Chilis, Outback, Dominos, Burger King, ad nauseum. There's still some doubt left, however. Doubt about the food. Back in the day, you knew where the beef was.
by casingpoint
Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:10 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Open Carry?
Replies: 87
Views: 11835

Re: Open Carry?

back in the history of our great state, the Texas legislature first prohibited the open carry of unconcealed handguns
LOL at that one, Coastie. In the collective mindset of the rest of the nation, Texas remains on the cutting edge of frontier justice, guns a-blazin' and nooses swinging from the post oaks. The last thing one expects to find in this vanguard state against crime in is a prohibition on openly carried handguns.

Me, I really like to be able to go into a Luby's Cafeteria packing a concealed 357 MAGNUM, take off my jacket and sit down and eat knowing all the while that if some moron drives his pickup truck through the wall and opens fire, I've got my donkey covered. And I would like to see a gun strapped on everybody else in the building.

Actually, I'd really rather eat a chicken fried steak at the Bon Ton Restaurant in LaGrange :drool: , but I guess it closed.

Coastie, speaking of chicken fried steak, is Youngbloods still on College Avenue?
by casingpoint
Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:17 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Open Carry?
Replies: 87
Views: 11835

Re: Open Carry?

While digging up the skinny on gun carry in Alabama, I came across this. It echos a consistent thread among the few cops I talk to that open carry in public is undesirable for tactical reasons. I thought this guy said it pretty well:
My take on it is if you are a law abiding citizen and interested in protecting yourself, your family, or whomever you feel the need to protect, why not carry concealed? Why do you feel the need to carry open? Is it just because you can?
Like has been stated, in this day and age, if you open carry without a law enforcement badge or ID on your hip next to your firearm, you are going to get a hard look and alot of scrutiny from just about everyone, including me. Rest assured you will get stopped, likely at gunpoint, by some LEO's who don't want to take a chance when conducting a field interview with you on why you have a weapon displayed on your hip. I don't know you from Adam, and you might be a great and law abiding person, but I am not about to approach you with a weapon displayed without taking every precaution I can take. I feel safe to say most, if not all cops will agree with me on that.
The ONLY time I carry open is while I am on duty and that is because I am a Detective and have to. When I am off duty, the last thing I want to do is wear a firearm open on my hip and draw unwanted attention. Plus, your chances of surprising a bad guy in the event you need to draw your weapon are much greater if you carry concealed.
Trust me on this, it may be legal for you to do so, but carrying open and not being a LEO is going to be MUCH greater trouble than you will want to deal with.
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93368" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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