TexasCHLforum.com

Right2Carry wrote:

llwatson wrote:I think it's time to introduce the "rule of 3".

1. You make your point.

2. You get to rebut an objection.

3. One last chance to rebut the rebuttal.

That's IT! After 3 times, we don't want to hear from you about this again!

No more

It appears that you are wrong on this. After all when somones uses my quotes and then asks a question, it would appear they want a response. If you are tired of looking at this discussion I would suggest avoiding it.

After 3 times, we don't want to hear from you about this again!

Have you been empowered by the whole forum to speak for everyone? After 3 times you may not want to hear about it again, but since questions are being asked and my quotes are being used, I don't think that you speak for everyone.

Nice try though.

Just because you don't like what is being dicussed doesn't mean you can try to limit a persons right to free speech.

double post

KBCraig wrote:(quoting fixed)

Right2Carry wrote:

RPBrown wrote:

I have asked several times for statistics that prove service personel are at a high risk of being attacked in a homeowners house, so far nothing. Well there was one person on here who was robbed in a parking lot of a business over 30 years ago, not sure that qualifies as being robbed inside a residence..

Read the whole post please. As stated, I was also robbed outside a customers HOME in broad daylight as well. This happened only 5 years ago. Now, I admit that it WAS NOT in the house, it was close enough for me.

Again, if posted or verbally informed, I will comply of course.

Did the homeowner rob you? My guess is no.

Has a service man robbed you? My guess is no.

But if a service man obeys your "notice" (to keep your kid from grabbing his gun), and is robbed between your house and his truck, I guess that's just his tough luck, eh?

You must have me confused with someone else, I said nothing about my kid grabbing anyones gun nor in any of my posts did I use that for an argument. My sole responsiblity is to provide safety for my family in their own house.

RPBrown wrote:[quote
I have asked several times for statistics that prove service personel are at a high risk of being attacked in a homeowners house, so far nothing. Well there was one person on here who was robbed in a parking lot of a business over 30 years ago, not sure that qualifies as being robbed inside a residence..

Read the whole post please. As stated, I was also robbed outside a customers HOME in broad daylight as well. This happened only 5 years ago. Now, I admit that it WAS NOT in the house, it was close enough for me.

Again, if posted or verbally informed, I will comply of course.[/quote]

Did the homeowner rob you? My guess is no.

Liberty wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:To compare me to anti is laughable at best. The fact is I do service jobs on the side and not once would I think about entering someones private residence armed, its a little thing called RESPECT. I don't know how they feel about guns and their home is PRIVATE property, not a public business.

What surprises me is that a CHLer would disarm another CHLer. That a CHL holder doesn't RESPECT the licence and the RKBA. A service person entering anothers property sets himself up to a dangerous situation. A homeowner should be able to RESPECT that.

Right2Carry wrote: The problem as I see it is some of the people on this forum want to be RESPECTED for their right, but seem to have a problem with RESPECTING others and their rights.

Unless you own your own company or work for a small time operation I doubt company policy allows you to carry into a customers home.

You definately have a right to deny anyone into your home. If you feel that way you should make up some cards or paper with 30.06 wording and hand it to the service personell. I would not enter your property. I would not allow anyone who works for me to enter your property. Anyone who attempts to disarm me is threatening me and is a danger to me. I will not expose my self to unnecessary danger. Your private property is a much more threatening place to me than public places.

Right2Carry wrote: How would you feel if you printed or exposed your firearm and the homeowner then requests that you leave because they don't like firearms. What do you think is going to happen when they call asking for another appointment and requesting a different service person. I think the minute they state the service person was armed in their house, the company will immediately say it is against their policy and said service person will be looking for a new job.

I would feel awful that I exposed my handgun .. But I would feel awful that I were to flash in Walmart. I do not know what kind of company you work for, but not every company is anti gun. Most service companys are small, or even owner operatated. Many of these service companys are subcontractors for larger companys. I would think it is very unwise to go into a strangers home unarmed.

Right2Carry wrote: IMHO this whole issue revolves around RESPECT. Just because I have a CHL doesn't mean it is always wise to carry a weapon. I asked in another post for someone to provide statistics on how many service personel have been robbed, killed, raped, murdered, while on a call in someones house. Pizza drivers are excluded because they are in a different category.

The pizza delivery guy doesn't have to go inside! I will not work in any place where my safety is not RESPECTED.
I don not understand how my safety has anything to do with any respect (or lack of respect)I might have for the homeowner. When you ask me to disarm you ask me to expose myself to danger.

Right2Carry wrote: Show me some statistics that say repair personel are at a high risk of being attacked by homeowners.

I guess I am an anti because I think a mans home is his CASTLE. I think some of the people on here are confusing a business that serves the public with a persons PRIVATE HOME.

A business is a safer place to go than someones home. More witnesses. I won't go to 30.06 busineses either.

Right2Carry wrote: I guess I just have more respect for the people who I provide a service to than others do. IMHO, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU ALWAYS SHOULD.

I have no respect for any business or persons that want to disarm me and has no RESPECT for my safety. I will gladly not do business with them.

OMG please tell me I didn't just read that service personel were more at risk entering a home than the homeowner, LOL. PLease tell me you weren't serious about that statement and it was a joke.

I have asked several times for statistics that prove service personel are at a high risk of being attacked in a homeowners house, so far nothing. Well there was one person on here who was robbed in a parking lot of a business over 30 years ago, not sure that qualifies as being robbed inside a residence.

Home invasions are on the rise, homes being robbed on the rise, if you don't believe me look in the news. I have yet to see one story about a repairman getting attacked, robbed, or anything else by a homeowner while performing a service.

The homeowner is by far at a greater risk of being robbed, raped, assualted and if you don't beleive that, then you don't watch the news or read the paper.

I have not once said anything about disarming a CHLer. I have stated several times that the majority of CHLers are trustworthy. I perform service calls but I leave my weapon in my truck or car before entering the home because I respect the fact that the person may be an ANTI or just someone that doesn't want a stranger entering their home with a weapon.

Have I exposed myself to some amount of risk by doing that, probably but in the large scheme of things the risk is so small that it amounts to almost nothing. IMHO I take a bigger risk everyday driving to work and back.

Once again I will say we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject.

I have said my peace lets just move on.

phddan wrote:It has been suggested many, many times that to keep law abiding CHLers out of your house, all you need to do is post, or give verbal.
Both Right2Carry, and BrassMonkey have refused to address this option.
Why is this??

Dan

I haven't refused to address anything. I know what the law says, but again I think that just because you can and it is allowed doesn't mean you should always do it.

RPBrown wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

llwatson wrote:Right2Carry,

I, too, think it is ironic that your handle, your signature, and your views are in such wide disagreement.

But, beside that, you have said the same thing over and over and over, and I don't think you have swayed anyone to your side. It's getting tiresome now. Please, let it go.

There is nothing at all ironic about my signature, the fact remains that everyman should be able to carry, does that extend into my castle, that depends on the person.

My whole point to this conversation was that someone responded that it shouldn't matter if a CHL person is carrying in your home they are trustworthy, and yet not one person who made that statement could offer any way to verify the claim.

I beleive in dealing with facts and if someone is going to make a claim that you should beleive a person is trustworthy just because he says he has a CHL, well than I have some ocean front property in AZ.

I will tell you something else. What is more on the rise, service people being robbed and attacked making service calls or home invasions? My chances are greater that the guy showing up at the door is going to rob me or worse, than of a service person showing up for a service call.

BG's pretending to be LEO's, and it won't be long before they figure out that they can pretend to be service personel either.

The biggest question is who is at more of a risk of something bad happening? The service man or the homeowner? IMHO I think the homeowner since home invasions are up all over.

Lets just agree to disagree on this topic.

You should know the company that you call. The company SHOULD have the service vehicle marked (rolling billboard for some). If not, I would use another service company. State law requires license numbers to be on the truck as well (A/C, Plumbing, Electrical, Pest control). If not, you should call another company. How would BG know what company you call?

Given this fact, it is a good idea to find a reputable company that you trust in all of the above listed industries and use them. This way you have a working knowledge of the company itself.

We use thesame plumber, electrician, and pest control companies we have used for years (still looking for a good a/c company. LOL). I know the trucks and can identify it as soon as the doorbell rings.

Thats all well and good, but since most people on here like to play what if lets give it a try. What if the service company you called has their truck car jacked on the way to your house. Car jackers look at the list of scheduled appoints and arrive to take you of your things or worse. People steal commercial vehicles all the time and your address and name will be in the truck.

See how all of this can steamroll into scenarios that just aren't likely to happen. Could it happen, you bet it could, but what are the chances.

IMHO I just think it is a bad idea, not because I am an ANTI, but because that is my opinion when dealing with people in their homes.

BrassMonkey wrote:Maybe this should be locked?

I don't think it should be locked, I just fine it funny that someone says well you can trust the guy because he has a CHL and he passed a background check.

I find it funny that the same people who are worried about BG's at every corner, and about getting robbed at someones home on a sevice call, are the same ones talking about taking a complete strangers word that he has a CHL. Now that is funny.

llwatson wrote:Right2Carry,

I, too, think it is ironic that your handle, your signature, and your views are in such wide disagreement.

But, beside that, you have said the same thing over and over and over, and I don't think you have swayed anyone to your side. It's getting tiresome now. Please, let it go.

There is nothing at all ironic about my signature, the fact remains that everyman should be able to carry, does that extend into my castle, that depends on the person.

My whole point to this conversation was that someone responded that it shouldn't matter if a CHL person is carrying in your home they are trustworthy, and yet not one person who made that statement could offer any way to verify the claim.

I beleive in dealing with facts and if someone is going to make a claim that you should beleive a person is trustworthy just because he says he has a CHL, well than I have some ocean front property in AZ.

I will tell you something else. What is more on the rise, service people being robbed and attacked making service calls or home invasions? My chances are greater that the guy showing up at the door is going to rob me or worse, than of a service person showing up for a service call.

BG's pretending to be LEO's, and it won't be long before they figure out that they can pretend to be service personel either.

The biggest question is who is at more of a risk of something bad happening? The service man or the homeowner? IMHO I think the homeowner since home invasions are up all over.

Lets just agree to disagree on this topic.

To compare me to anti is laughable at best. The fact is I do service jobs on the side and not once would I think about entering someones private residence armed, its a little thing called RESPECT. I don't know how they feel about guns and their home is PRIVATE property, not a public business.

The problem as I see it is some of the people on this forum want to be RESPECTED for their right, but seem to have a problem with RESPECTING others and their rights.

Unless you own your own company or work for a small time operation I doubt company policy allows you to carry into a customers home.

How would you feel if you printed or exposed your firearm and the homeowner then requests that you leave because they don't like firearms. What do you think is going to happen when they call asking for another appointment and requesting a different service person. I think the minute they state the service person was armed in their house, the company will immediately say it is against their policy and said service person will be looking for a new job.

IMHO this whole issue revolves around RESPECT. Just because I have a CHL doesn't mean it is always wise to carry a weapon. I asked in another post for someone to provide statistics on how many service personel have been robbed, killed, raped, murdered, while on a call in someones house. Pizza drivers are excluded because they are in a different category.

Show me some statistics that say repair personel are at a high risk of being attacked by homeowners.

I guess I am an anti because I think a mans home is his CASTLE. I think some of the people on here are confusing a business that serves the public with a persons PRIVATE HOME.

I guess I just have more respect for the people who I provide a service to than others do. IMHO, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU ALWAYS SHOULD.

iflyabeech wrote:

Right2Carry wrote: . . . . . If a service person prints or exposes his firearm how do you PROVE that he is a CHL holder if all he does is tell you he is? . . . . .

Remove the words "service person" from your post and replace with "citizen". Now you can see that your intellect makes about as much sense as Micheal Moore.

Ahhhhh so now we start with the personal attacks. I wasn't the one in this thread stating that we can trust the service person who is in my house because he is a CHL holder. Personally I don't care what happens on the street or in a business, it is none of my business.

IF people on this forum are going to use as an argument that the service person is trustworthy because he has a CHL, than I want to know how to verify this claim. See I already know the answer but I want to hear it from those on this board that say trust the guy because he TOLD you he is a CHL holder.

I find it amazing that the same people on here who see a bad guy behind every bush, rock, car and tree, would all of a sudden take the word of a guy who is a complete stranger in your home performing service work.

Once again the question has been avoided.

pbandjelly wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:You brought it up, not me. If you don't like beating a dead horse than I would suggest you seek professional help with your addiction.

Your poor grasp on English aside, accusing me of having an addiction may be construed as a personal attack.

What I brought up, was a conversation about the same topic. Since you're still here, you should notice that happens rather often.
Many of us, we who know how to hit the "quote" button, reference older threads that pertain to the same topic.

I never challenged that you had the "right" to your own opinion.
funny, you get up in arms about your "right" to your own opinion, but other's "right" to defend themselves is of no concern.

Show me once where I said anything about taking away the rights of others to defend themselves. If service people are going to be afraid of making service calls, I suggest that maybe they find new work preferably one that doesn't have a perceived element of danger to it.

Since my grasp of the english language is so bad, please answer the question that continues to be evaded in this thread. If a service person prints or exposes his firearm how do you PROVE that he is a CHL holder if all he does is tell you he is? Surely someone who values his intellect as much as you do can answer that simple question from poor ole dumb me.

I mean we all know that 95% of CHL holders are decent, law abiding citizens but how do you prove as a citizen that he is?

phddan wrote:

BrassMonkey wrote:Just because some guy has a CHL, does nt omean he knows how to maintain his equipment. Or how to retain his equipment so it does not land on a tile floor, or someone's foot. Or God forbid, an AD. Just because someone has a CHL does nto mean that I amnot gonna have a heck of a time getting my Homeowners Insurance to pay out on any injuries sustained to either the service person or my family and I.

Do not lump me in with the Anti's. I own plenty of weapons and shoot probably more then most of the people on this board as of late. We just got back from India again where we shot no less then 2 hours a day with the Indian army on my off time. We got to shoot some big stuff too, like stuff mounted on helisopters :-)

Anyway, an Anti argument is that guns kill people, my argument is, that the guy working on my sink may just be the 1 in whatever idiot whose gun goes off accidentally. I prefer not to take the chance. The beautiful part about being my home, and being in America is that it takes only one word being spoken, "Leave" and guess what, I do not have to say anymore than that. No explanation, no have a nice day. Nothing.

That, in my humble opinion is a very weak argument.
I've been in service work for about 20 years. Some of the places I went would scare the heck out of most people.
Your making the same arguments that the anti's use and they just don't work. If they are properly concealing, then you will never know. And being a chl holder tells you that they passed a pretty good background check, so that is exactly who you should want working in and around your house.
Sure sounds like you think that your the only one that should carry.

Either post a sign, or give a verbal. If not, then they are perfectly within their rights to carry. What is so hard to understand.

Dan

Please inform us how we are supposed to know that the service person who flashed or printed is a CHLer. Are you willing to take their word for it?

Venus Pax wrote:I would be very uncomfortable to see a service worker's (accidentally flashed) gun for the reasons mentioned above: I do not know this person and do not know whether he/she is a CHL or is some type of violent offender with an illegally-accessed gun.

I can understand, however, your desire to have it with you. If you take it in a house, just make sure it's covered and the home occupants don't know it's there.

Invited guests are a different story. If I invite a person into my home, I have some degree of trust in that person. Most of our friends are from our church or another local church; if they have evil intentions, they're hiding it well. A few in particular have a CHL, so if they accidentally flashed, I wouldn't be bothered at all because I know their status.

As for children getting ahold of one, if it's on a person's body, kids aren't going to access it w/o the person knowing.

I agree a invited guess is a whole different ball game than a person performing a service. I would never have any questions for anyone I invited into my home as a guest, in fact I hope they are all carrying since I know and trust those types of person and have some idea of there firearms training.

The Kid scenario is not so much my son grabbing a gun ( he knows better) but of the service persons ability to keep the gun in its place at all times.

Liberty wrote:

BrassMonkey wrote:I think we are talking specifically about a service person. If I see it, I would take that as a sign of non professionalism or perhaps even a safety issue. I instruct him to leave and request a new service person at that point. The very next steps are his out the door.n I think the official passing of Castle Doctrine reaffirms the sacredness of a man's home..

My $.02

It is absolutely your right. but I don't think if a serviceman flashes that it is necessarily unprofessional. Sometimes while working one is put into unusual postures or positions. I would feel more comfortable though if i found out that a service worker has a CHL because that suggest that he isn't a felon, or drug addict.

Maybe Texas isn't ready for it yet, But I I would love to see an ad that says "All our Installers are CHL Qualified!" This would be a wonderful way certifying the character of the personnel. and we could be assured that we were not letting criminals into our homes.

The problem here is that the service person can tell you he is a CHL holder and he has no requirement to prove to you that he is or isn't. A CHL holder is only required to show his ID to a LEO not joe blow citizen.

It is also my experiance that most Companies forbid the carrying of firearms in Company Vehicles. Would you trust someone who has already decided to violate company policy? Is this person trustworthy? If he flashes you have no way in knowing that he is a legit CHL holder.

The issue here IMHO has nothing to do with trusting a fellow CHL holder, but is the guy actually a CHL holder. As so many have posted on here that they would never divulge to Joe Blow Citizen whether they have a CHL if asked or stopped in a store by a security person, I find it hard to believe they would show their CHL to a homeowner who requests it to prove they are legal. Anyone can say they have a CHL in your home.