TexasCHLforum.com

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

nyj wrote:You guys are fighting about what turtles eat.

What is this world coming to

NO. Maybe you should read the posts if you want to comment on them. We are debating whether or not turtles are causing declining fish and frog populations.

We are debating the opinion of your original post discounting anything else could be responsible for the declining population of frogs.

lightningrocks said:

The reduction in frog populations has NOTHING to do with turtles. Frog population reduction is due to man polluting the environment with pesticides and fertilizers.

As a kid I lived in Pasadena Texas. There were toad frogs all over the place. Not now. Again... Not predation... POLLUTION.

And for the last time. Declining populations of fish and frogs has NOTHING to do with turtles. You have posted NOTHING... Absolutely NOTHING that shows otherwise.

The reasons for the declines in frog populations IS ENVIRONMENTAL. This I have posted more than one link to proving to all but the thickest of readers that environmental issues are the ONLY reason.

You have slowly evolved your original argument as you have recognized the error of your original post concerning this. You originally wanted to act as if you believed that turtles were somehow responsible. now you try to rebuild your case from a different angle. For this reason I feel I have done a very thorough job of educating you. Where should I send the bill? My work is done here.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

chuckybrown wrote:I think I found a photo of lightningrocks:

[ Image ]

all in fun buddy.....

Yep, that's me... . I wish I were in that good of shape! the funny thing is, I am really not that concerned about turtle populations.

My main point is... Why justify silliness with false information? If you want to randomly shoot turtles for fun, call it what it is. But nope, we have a new mentality in America these days. We have this tendency to think we can justify any behavior we want and this makes it OK. If we feel we need to search for a reason to do something, this may just be an indicator that what it is we are doing is inherently wrong.

I have just furnished proof that the theory of turtles being the cause for frog and fish populations dwindling in the wild is incorrect. Is the op still planning to shoot them? My guess is... Probably.

That being said, I do believe amphibians are our "canary in the coal mine" when it comes to environmental pollutants. But that is a whole different thread topic.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

nyj wrote:You guys are fighting about what turtles eat.

What is this world coming to

NO. Maybe you should read the posts if you want to comment on them. We are debating whether or not turtles are causing declining fish and frog populations.

The reduction in frog populations has NOTHING to do with turtles. Frog population reduction is due to man polluting the environment with pesticides and fertilizers.

As a kid I lived in Pasadena Texas. There were toad frogs all over the place. Not now. Again... Not predation... POLLUTION.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:More "FACTS" on Pesticides and Fertilizers.

Several scientific ideas about the causes of amphibian declines exist, and they’re not necessarily mutually exclusive. Chemical pesticides, fertilizers and acid rain are thought to have contributed. Habitat loss has definitely affected amphibian populations. A killer “chytrid” fungus affects populations in both North and South America. Increased ultraviolet radiation (UV-B) has also been implicated.

http://www.tpwmagazine.com/archive/2004/may/ed_2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now you are doing straw man arguments. The original comment that I said was baloney was a post insinuating that somehow snapping turtles were causing a decline in fish and frog populations. Now you want to discuss environmental pollutants as if they don't exist. Just plain silliness my man.

I think you realize how wrong it is to blame turtles for declining frog and fish populations but you don't know how to get off it without losing "Internet face". It's OK. I still respect you. It is OK to be wrong. As you get older you will realize it is no crime to be incorrect.

Let me help you out. There is the possible correlation that in an artificial environment, such as stock tank, turtle may lower your fish numbers. I can't find a single article supporting this but will give it to you so we can move on. As for the original post concerning this situation where it was suggested that the turtles were causing declining fish and frog populations... BULL ONNEY! Other species eat far more fish eggs and frog eggs than turtles.

Here is some more info on the topic of turtle eating eggs.

http://www.ct.gov/dEep/cwp/view.asp?a=2 ... v_GID=1655" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the main paragraph concerning the silliness.

A 1940s study in Connecticut found that not only fish, but aquatic plants and crayfish are dominant food items. Other studies also have shown that snapping turtles eat insignificant amounts of game fish, and that mammalian nest predators and large fish kill far more waterfowl than do snapping turtles. In natural situations, snapping turtles have no significant impact on fish or waterfowl populations.

Several scientific ideas about the causes of amphibian declines exist, and they’re not necessarily mutually exclusive. Chemical pesticides, fertilizers and acid rain are thought to have contributed. Habitat loss has definitely affected amphibian populations. A killer “chytrid” fungus affects populations in both North and South America. Increased ultraviolet radiation (UV-B) has also been implicated.

chuckybrown wrote:I have a pond that I stock, and I hate turtles. I was there yesterday mowing my farm, and I went fishing. I counted 8 turtles in the water at one time with their snouts out of water.

I'll be back Tuesday night with my Ruger 77 .22 magnum to dispatch as many as I can before sundown.

When they sink, they become fish food.

How's that for the circle of life?

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:The reduction in frog populations has NOTHING to do with turtles. Frog population reduction is due to man polluting the environment with pesticides and fertilizers.

As a kid I lived in Pasadena Texas. There were toad frogs all over the place. Not now. Again... Not predation... POLLUTION.

Don't try to justify ridiculous behavior by acting as if you are helping Mother Nature control predation. Lets just go ahead and admit what it is. Killing for the pleasure of it. Very similar to pulling the wings off flies for fun.

You might want to check your facts about snapping turtles.

HideEcology and life history

Common habitats are shallow ponds, shallow lakes, or streams. Some may inhabit brackish environments, such as estuaries. Common snapping turtles sometimes bask—though rarely observed—by floating on the surface with only their carapace exposed, though in the northern parts of their range they will also readily bask on fallen logs in early spring. In shallow waters, common snappers may lie beneath a muddy bottom with only the head exposed, stretching their long necks to the surface for an occasional breath (note that their nostrils are positioned on the very tip of the snout, effectively functioning as snorkels). Snapping turtles are omnivores, consuming both plant and animal matter, and are important aquatic scavengers; but they are also active hunters that prey on anything they can swallow, including many invertebrates, fish, frogs, reptiles (including snakes and smaller turtles), unwary birds, and small mammals.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_s ... #section_2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just in case you don't like WIKI

http://www.tpwmagazine.com/nature/media/Turtles.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You may want to check your own facts. That does not say turtles are the cause for frig population reductions.

But it does state that turtles eat frogs, fish, ducklings among other things. Those of us who have had stock ponds know the problems that turtles cause. Your opinion as posted didn't have any facts to back up your thoughts.

We do know that turtles do eat frogs and tadpoles based on facts.

You probably missed this post which proves you are wrong as wrong can be as far as blaming turtles for the reduction in frog populations. What you are talking about with the stock pond reference is like telling me that how I control what resides in my aquarium can be used as a model for how to control what resides in the ocean.

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Since we are going to use wiki, here ya go. The real reason for the decline in frog populations. I did like you, only my search was done to find out the reason for amphibian reductions rather than to justify killing wildlife for fun and entertainment.
if snapping turtle control is a desire, not to worry. It won't be long until all of their natural food sources are reduced to the point that the turtle populations will decline as well. Problem solved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_in ... opulations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Declines in amphibian populations, including population crashes and mass localized extinctions, have been noted since the 1980s from locations all over the world. These declines are perceived as one of the most critical threats to global biodiversity, and several causes are believed to be involved, including disease, habitat destruction and modification, exploitation, pollution, pesticide use, introduced species, and increased ultraviolet-B radiation (UV-B).

Do I really need to explain what "believed to be" means? Seems to be more opinions without facts.

I also provided a link to Texas Parks and Wildlife Magazine just in case you didn't like WIKI.

Just admit I taught you something and your ego is damaged. I provided nothing but facts and you spoke of what happens in a stock pond. I can't begin to explain the humor in you picking out the words "believed to be" and thinking this means the whole scientific community can put environmental concerns to rest based on what happens in a stock pond. "Yep fellers. That's it! We finally figured it out. We just kill all turtles and the frog populations across the globe will rise". ROTFL

The reduction in frog populations has NOTHING to do with turtles. Frog population reduction is due to man polluting the environment with pesticides and fertilizers.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:The reduction in frog populations has NOTHING to do with turtles. Frog population reduction is due to man polluting the environment with pesticides and fertilizers.

As a kid I lived in Pasadena Texas. There were toad frogs all over the place. Not now. Again... Not predation... POLLUTION.

Don't try to justify ridiculous behavior by acting as if you are helping Mother Nature control predation. Lets just go ahead and admit what it is. Killing for the pleasure of it. Very similar to pulling the wings off flies for fun.

You might want to check your facts about snapping turtles.

HideEcology and life history

Common habitats are shallow ponds, shallow lakes, or streams. Some may inhabit brackish environments, such as estuaries. Common snapping turtles sometimes bask—though rarely observed—by floating on the surface with only their carapace exposed, though in the northern parts of their range they will also readily bask on fallen logs in early spring. In shallow waters, common snappers may lie beneath a muddy bottom with only the head exposed, stretching their long necks to the surface for an occasional breath (note that their nostrils are positioned on the very tip of the snout, effectively functioning as snorkels). Snapping turtles are omnivores, consuming both plant and animal matter, and are important aquatic scavengers; but they are also active hunters that prey on anything they can swallow, including many invertebrates, fish, frogs, reptiles (including snakes and smaller turtles), unwary birds, and small mammals.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_s ... #section_2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just in case you don't like WIKI

http://www.tpwmagazine.com/nature/media/Turtles.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You may want to check your own facts. That does not say turtles are the cause for frig population reductions.

But it does state that turtles eat frogs, fish, ducklings among other things. Those of us who have had stock ponds know the problems that turtles cause. Your opinion as posted didn't have any facts to back up your thoughts.

We do know that turtles do eat frogs and tadpoles based on facts.

You probably missed this post which proves you are wrong as wrong can be as far as blaming turtles for the reduction in frog populations. What you are talking about with the stock pond reference is like telling me that how I control what resides in my aquarium can be used as a model for how to control what resides in the ocean.

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Since we are going to use wiki, here ya go. The real reason for the decline in frog populations. I did like you, only my search was done to find out the reason for amphibian reductions rather than to justify killing wildlife for fun and entertainment.
if snapping turtle control is a desire, not to worry. It won't be long until all of their natural food sources are reduced to the point that the turtle populations will decline as well. Problem solved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_in ... opulations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Declines in amphibian populations, including population crashes and mass localized extinctions, have been noted since the 1980s from locations all over the world. These declines are perceived as one of the most critical threats to global biodiversity, and several causes are believed to be involved, including disease, habitat destruction and modification, exploitation, pollution, pesticide use, introduced species, and increased ultraviolet-B radiation (UV-B).

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:The reduction in frog populations has NOTHING to do with turtles. Frog population reduction is due to man polluting the environment with pesticides and fertilizers.

As a kid I lived in Pasadena Texas. There were toad frogs all over the place. Not now. Again... Not predation... POLLUTION.

Don't try to justify ridiculous behavior by acting as if you are helping Mother Nature control predation. Lets just go ahead and admit what it is. Killing for the pleasure of it. Very similar to pulling the wings off flies for fun.

You might want to check your facts about snapping turtles.

HideEcology and life history

Common habitats are shallow ponds, shallow lakes, or streams. Some may inhabit brackish environments, such as estuaries. Common snapping turtles sometimes bask—though rarely observed—by floating on the surface with only their carapace exposed, though in the northern parts of their range they will also readily bask on fallen logs in early spring. In shallow waters, common snappers may lie beneath a muddy bottom with only the head exposed, stretching their long necks to the surface for an occasional breath (note that their nostrils are positioned on the very tip of the snout, effectively functioning as snorkels). Snapping turtles are omnivores, consuming both plant and animal matter, and are important aquatic scavengers; but they are also active hunters that prey on anything they can swallow, including many invertebrates, fish, frogs, reptiles (including snakes and smaller turtles), unwary birds, and small mammals.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_s ... #section_2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just in case you don't like WIKI

http://www.tpwmagazine.com/nature/media/Turtles.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You may want to check your own facts. That does not say turtles are the cause for frig population reductions.

03Lightningrocks wrote:The reduction in frog populations has NOTHING to do with turtles. Frog population reduction is due to man polluting the environment with pesticides and fertilizers.

As a kid I lived in Pasadena Texas. There were toad frogs all over the place. Not now. Again... Not predation... POLLUTION.

Don't try to justify ridiculous behavior by acting as if you are helping Mother Nature control predation. Lets just go ahead and admit what it is. Killing for the pleasure of it. Very similar to pulling the wings off flies for fun.