TexasCHLforum.com

Bullitt wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote:...I'm proud of what Zimmerman did. Were I in his place, I very well might have done the same thing. He chose not to stick his head in the sand and let his neighborhood succumb to the "law of the jungle". Yep, he paid a price for it. So did Martin and his family. Sometimes, that happens when one person chooses to obey the law, and another chooses not to.

Your "pride" in what he did is what engenders others to "go on patrol" when they are issued a CHL. It's the harbinger of vigilantism.

I'd say that unfettered thuggery is the harbinger of vigilantism. Zimmerman was not a vigilante. He was observing, and reporting. For that, he was attacked. He defended himself.

Bullitt wrote:

I wonder how many break-ins have occurred at Twin Lakes since this happened.

There's no evidence that Martin was going to break into anybody's house.

That's not what I was implying. My "wondering" was related to whether it might have diminished since those in the neighborhood now completely understand that bad things can happen when you do bad things.

Bullitt wrote:

Also, one final note. If you believe that just sticking to the "me and mine" will make you immune to the type of persecution that Zimmerman has faced, you're fooling yourself.

The "if" of your premise is wrong, you only know a few snippets about what I "believe." However, risk management is something to consider when one wishes to engage in white knighthood. Given the outcome, Zimmerman has learned that lesson.

Yes, he's learned the "lesson" that an over-zealous attorney can make one's life miserable. The lesson that we, as CHL holders, should take from this is that there are those that would wish to see what happened to Zimmerman happen to all of us who would protect ourselves.

However, this story is not yet over. It will be long in the making, and I hope that Zimmerman (and the rest of the country) learns a few more lessons from it.

I hope they learn that a prosecutory who withholds evidence and maliciously proscutes someone for political gain gets held accountable.
I hope that they learn that a race of people do not achieve "justice" through an injustice to one person.

With the outpouring of support that he's seeing, I believe that Zimmerman is also going to learn the lesson that even in the midst of the craziness, there are those that support a man who has done nothing wrong.

Bullitt wrote:

Tic Tac wrote:If you are ever in trouble, I pray you have neighbors just like you.

I doubt God will entertain your prayers as worthy of his consideration. Praying for the demise of another is probably an abuse of prayer.

I think this is an appropriate prayer to wish on anyone. To a good neighbor, it means "you should have neighbors as good as you". To a bad neighbor, it means "maybe you should be a better neighbor". And the best part of it is, it leaves up to the individual to decide where he/she fits into the picture.

Bullitt wrote:

Again, stupid is an opinion. I disagree with it, and you've done nothing to convince me otherwise.

Not trying to convince you of anything. However, stupid can measured by the outcome, "Stupid is as stupid does." In this case, Z was indeed stupid as evidenced by his own outcome. He could have proceeded on, then this conversation never happens.

I'm not going to belabor the point (anymore than I have). You're entitled to your opinion, I disagree.

I'm proud of what Zimmerman did. Were I in his place, I very well might have done the same thing. He chose not to stick his head in the sand and let his neighborhood succumb to the "law of the jungle". Yep, he paid a price for it. So did Martin and his family. Sometimes, that happens when one person chooses to obey the law, and another chooses not to.

Small side-note
I wonder how many break-ins have occurred at Twin Lakes since this happened.

Also, one final note. If you believe that just sticking to the "me and mine" will make you immune to the type of persecution that Zimmerman has faced, you're fooling yourself. All it will take is a prosecutor that is determined to ignore the law and mount a crusade. That's all it took in this case.

Bullitt wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote: I daresay a neighborhood watch volunteer is a bit more invested than you would be then.

You are correct. His "investment" really paid off, didn't it.

Which, of course, could be said of someone breaking in your house and you shooting them. No, in this particular instance, him taking on the responsibility of being concerned about his neighborhood didn't pay off.

That makes him unlucky, not stuipd.

Bullitt wrote:

Personally, I'm tired of hearing that Zimmerman was "stupid". I disagree. He followed at a distance. He didn't confront, he didn't pursue. He followed so he could answer the questions he was being asked. Then, he headed back.

If you are tired of hearing it, then you must be getting pretty tired, 'cuz a lot of people agree. Z didn't have to follow any "instructions." He got out of his car and followed and therefore didn't think. He was stupid. At that time Martin was a threat to nobody.

You're right, they are a lot of people that think he's stupid. That doesn't make it true.

I might also point out, many of those people also think you and I are stupid for having a CHL and carrying a gun (I'm assuming you're a CHL holder). That opinion also doesn't make it true.

Bullitt wrote:

Unknown to him, his attacker circled back and ambushed him. That doesn't make Zimmerman "stupid", it makes him an involved neighbor.

Yes, it does make him stupid. He has no common sense. Think law of the jungle instead of this crap that's written on paper. An unknown person is stalking you, fight or flight or both? If Martin also had a CHL, then this incident becomes a Mexican standoff.

I don't need to think of the "law of the jungle". We don't live by the law of the jungle. If an unknown person is following me (your use of the word "stalking" is incorrect), I do not have the legal right to attack them, no matter how much my instinct might encourage me to (mine wouldn't). The "stupid" act was Martin's. He acted stupidly when he chose to attack an armed man.

Bullitt wrote:

That said, were I to have a choice between a Zimmerman as a neighbor, and a "me and mine" as a neighbor, I'd pick Z.

You don't get to pick your neighbors. I count on myself, not my "neighbor," which is why I carry.

Of course you don't, which is why I used the word "if".
God forbid though, you ever have to use your weapon, and find yourself faced with people who believe in the "law of the jungle", and that you disrespecting someone is deserving of a beatdown, and that you don't have the right to defend yourself against a beatdown.

Again, stupid is an opinion. I disagree with it, and you've done nothing to convince me otherwise.

Bullitt wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:

Bullitt wrote:...We'd all be calling him a coward if he got back in his car and moved on if some later crime occurred...

No, I don't think I would be calling him a coward if he reported the activity to the police and just moved on. In fact we wouldn't even know about any aftermath if he had just moved on.

However, this does bring up the question of where an individual feels his duty stops, or even starts. Mine stops with my person, my immediate family, my close friends, and any who are directly around me when there is a threat to a group of which I am in, like in a bank robbery or a Luby's type shooting. But if I see some suspicious looking dude tooling down the street, I will just call the cops and leave. If I see somebody breaking into a house while I am driving down the road, then I just call the cops and leave. At one time I would interfere if I saw a man beating a woman, not anymore! She turned on me, didn't want the protection/interference. One can never tell these days what type of scum you are coming to rescue, and white knights are no longer really appreciated, even here in Texas.

I daresay a neighborhood watch volunteer is a bit more invested than you would be then.
Personally, I'm tired of hearing that Zimmerman was "stupid". I disagree. He followed at a distance. He didn't confront, he didn't pursue. He followed so he could answer the questions he was being asked. Then, he headed back.

Unknown to him, his attacker circled back and ambushed him. That doesn't make Zimmerman "stupid", it makes him an involved neighbor.

I understand why you feel the way you do for your personal reasons, and I don't fault you for it. Nor do I fault Zimmerman for deciding to be more involved than you.

That said, were I to have a choice between a Zimmerman as a neighbor, and a "me and mine" as a neighbor, I'd pick Z.