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goose wrote:

Skiprr wrote:If a guy bum-rushes you and pins you back against the hood of a Camry, odds are you can’t get to your handgun. If you could, it would be a weak draw and might be easily taken away.

Knives, especially folders, are usually carried clipped in a front pocket. I’d suggest that be high in the offhand pocket.

Why? Because if you carry your gun strong-side hip or appendix, you can protect it by clamping your arm over it and using the blade in your off-hand to disable or fend off your attacker long enough—far enough—to deploy your firearm.

That’s the purpose of a blade: to fight back to your handgun.

I was also a bit confused (short sighted) as to why a knife might be a CHL’s first option. This was a good explanation. I need to think about a weak side pocket knife of some sort. And at a minimum, drawing and unfolding practice, weak handed.

Thanks, Goose.

Someone PMed me on this topic asking about pepper spray. In my opinion, OC can be very useful if you are practiced at deploying it and it's a stream-type dispersion system fired at a reasonable distance (and in the correct wind conditions). Using OC at contact distance is just as likely to put the irritant in your own face--and on your hands--as the assailant's. This is problematic with one attacker, but can become catastrophic with multiple assailants.

That an outside-the-home assault is most likely to occur at very close distances is also one reason I do not recommend small-of-back carry, despite everything we see in the movies. Cross-draw comes in at second worst, shoulder holster at third.

Job one if you're physically assaulted: do not give up your firearm.

If someone tries to reach for your holstered firearm, the instinctive--and correct--reaction is to blade your body away from the aggressor and clamp your forearm over the gun. That works if you're carrying from appendix to four o'clock (for right-handers; to eight o'clock for left-handers). You cannot protect your holstered weapon if you're carrying small-of-back. Shoulder-holster carry means you'll need to fight dominant side forward, which is awkward for most.

A lot of knife guys say that you should be able to reach your blade with either hand and with either front or back carry. Yeah right. Get back to me on that. I'm not 30 years old, and I'm not that flexible.

My choice is EDC firearm on the right hip and a blade high on the left pocket.

The blade is always the second choice. But I'd rather have it than not.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:I am very not worried about a robber with a knife. Its the hard lead objects coming at me I am worried about.

My opinion on the issue was expressed a couple of pages back: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68450&start=19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68450&start=39" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I personally think being unconcerned about a robber with a knife is a mistake. Knives are cheap, plentiful, and can do horrendous damage. Considering that outside the home in urban areas a violent attack will likely be initiated at a distance of six feet or less, a knife in a bad guy's hands is a very real threat.

Thanks. And this goes back to equin's question that I am very late replying to:

This is interesting info. For a newbie with no blade experience, what kind of blade is best for SD? A fixed blade? Also, how would it be easier or faster to draw a blade for SD in a close-encounter (less than 21 ft) than it would be a handgun? Or I'm guessing a self-defense class and practice would help with that? Are there any SD classes that focus on using a knife? Most of the ones I see advertised are handgun SD classes, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

Like karder's, my experience has been lengthy, not so much with recent classes or seminars.

First, I want to address this: “Also, how would it be easier or faster to draw a blade for SD in a close-encounter (less than 21 ft) than it would be a handgun?”

I want to repeat the Clint Smith quotation: “The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.” Add to that: “Two is one. One is none.”

Your firearm is always your primary weapon. IMHO, for defensive purposes, you should never carry a rifle or shotgun without also having a handgun on your side; and you should never carry a handgun without having a defensive knife at hand.

The stats I mentioned earlier were from NYPD SOP9, a study that included over 6,000 individual officer-involved shootings. In cases where distances could be adequately determined, officer hit-percentages at distances less than 15 yards were:

• Contact to 3 feet: 38%
• 3 yards to 7 yards: 11.5%
• 7 yards to 15 yards: 9.4%

Fully 65% of the officers who felt there was impending danger prior to the actual encounter had their handguns drawn and ready.

The short answer is: deploy your handgun if you can do so...with assurance and accuracy.

You cannot necessarily deploy your blade faster than your handgun...nor should you. It depends on the circumstances.

In most cases your firearm will be on your strong-side hip or slightly behind it. I’m also okay with appendix carry. Less so with shoulder holsters, and absolutely hate small-of-the-back carry. Here’s why:

We shoot at the range, even IDPA. But our practice seldom includes bad guys charging us from five feet away.

I’ve taught folks who said they would never let a possible assailant get that close to them. I challenge them to go through a normal day in an urban environment and count the number of people who come within five feet of them. They always lose count, but it opens their eyes.

Just like we have to trust other drivers to (basically) stay in their lanes, we have to trust most people we encounter to be harmless. If we really stayed in Cooper’s Code Yellow, we’d have our hands on the grips of our guns all the time. If you’re walking across a parking lot and see a guy with his pants down to half-staff, you won’t do a “tactical” roll and come up behind a Ford F-250 simply to avoid him coming within a few feet of you.

Again, this is not about in-the-home, or about rural property.

Outside the home in a major metropolitan area, threats are unlikely to present themselves at distance. A bad guy ain’t gonna stop and announce at seven yards away that he’s gonna rob you.

He—and probably a partner—will close on you, being very affable and simply asking for the time, or for directions, or for a couple of bucks for gas.

Parking lots are the number one locations for violent crime.

The whole point of the blade discussion—and I think Pecos can relate—is that if an event becomes a physical altercation, job one is to protect your gun.

If a guy bum-rushes you and pins you back against the hood of a Camry, odds are you can’t get to your handgun. If you could, it would be a weak draw and might be easily taken away.

Knives, especially folders, are usually carried clipped in a front pocket. I’d suggest that be high in the offhand pocket.

Why? Because if you carry your gun strong-side hip or appendix, you can protect it by clamping your arm over it and using the blade in your off-hand to disable or fend off your attacker long enough—far enough—to deploy your firearm.

That’s the purpose of a blade: to fight back to your handgun.

A few points; my personal opinion only.

First, carrying a blade for self-defense requires training, just like carrying a firearm. If you aren’t practiced in using it, you won’t be able to deploy it effectively. Better to have it than not, but your performance under extreme stress will be no better than your training and practice. No different than with your handgun.

Second, folks who decry a blade as unnecessary because they carry a gun might want to rethink that. Inside a radius of zero to 10 feet defending your life is about fighting. It is not about marksmanship.

If you are not aware of, and prepared for, that contingency you will always be at a mental and physical disadvantage to the committed felon who lives and does business in that very zone.

Outside of your home in a metropolitan area, our best stats say that your odds of a deadly encounter are:

• Contact to 3 feet: 34%
• 3 feet to 6 feet: 47%
• 6 feet to 15 feet: 9%

Only 10% of deadly encounters will happen at a distance of over than 15 feet. And 81% will happen at a distance of six feet or less.

Familiar with Tueller’s Drill (he hates calling it a “rule,” so I won’t)? Google it. What it showed was that a committed aggressor could cover 21 feet before a law enforcement officer could deploy and use his firearm.

Don’t worry so much about 21 feet. Worry about six feet.

Third, the purpose of a defensive blade is to either protect your handgun, or allow you to fight your way back to it. Clint Smith said, “The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.”

At bad-breath distance against a committed aggressor you don’t have time to clear your cover garment and present your handgun.

But a good blade might change the outcome.

Fourth, something used to cut box tops is almost certainly not a defensive blade. Neither is a switchblade. I used to live overseas and had a few switchblade knives, mostly Italian (now discarded). I wouldn’t go into a fight with any of them.

A defensive blade needs to be thick and sturdy. Switchblades, typically, are not.

Thin blades break. Regardless of their carbon composition. The very reason that you wouldn’t want to take a sharp ceramic kitchen knife into a fight.