TAM, the described incident relates to these news stories: Dallas Morning News and KEYE TV.The Annoyed Man wrote:Do I understand correctly that you work in a business that was robbed or had merchandise shoplifted, and you pursued the thieves; and that while pursuing the thieves, you actually considered engaging them in a gunfight in order to recover the stolen money/property?
Search found 2 matches
Return to “Black Friday & thinking like a newbie...Part 2”
- Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:17 pm
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Black Friday & thinking like a newbie...Part 2
- Replies: 16
- Views: 2944
Re: Black Friday & thinking like a newbie...Part 2
- Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:29 am
- Forum: New to CHL?
- Topic: Black Friday & thinking like a newbie...Part 2
- Replies: 16
- Views: 2944
Re: Black Friday & thinking like a newbie...Part 2
I'll echo the welcome to the Forum. And doubly so because we need many more women to take the step that you did: to get your CHL and arm yourself. Fewer than 1% of Texans have a CHL, and fewer than 18% of those are women. That needs to change.
One comment before anything else: Our host here, Charles Cotton, occasionally conducts a seminar on the use and aftermath of deadly force. Watch for it, and if you can attend one in 2009, I strongly recommend it.
A corollary, and one that folks around here get sick of hearing from me: seek out more advanced training from a nationally-known source. I think it's an extremely valuable few-hundred dollars spent for people who decide to carry a gun. No dispersions cast toward your local range instructor, but trainers with a well-known reputation generally bring at least two additional things to the table: significant experience, and an established course curriculum.
Your closing comment is, for me, a vital learning point applicable to everyone:
And you were absolutely correct to point to movies and TV as a major culprit. Indiana Jones pulls out his revolver and fires 28 rounds without reloading; Angelina Jolie whips her arm and makes the path of a bullet curve; an actor shot in the torso with a handgun is slammed down to the ground; an actor shot with a shotgun is literally blown backward. These idiocies--and dare I include video games?--have completely and bizarrely distorted what a gun is and what it can do.
Although I've never found a definitive study, numerous reports indicate that being shot by a handgun results in an average mortality rate of less than 20%. Meaning over 80% of shooting victims (and I use that term in context only) survive being shot. The mortality rate is much higher for shotguns and rifles.
In many gangs, having the scars to prove you've been shot is a badge of honor. And even if the bad guy doesn't fear your drawn gun because he's been shot before, never assume a VCA (Violent Criminal Actor) is wired the same way you are.
You may be risk-averse about driving without your seatbelt. He may feel he has nothing to lose (or total commitment to La Familia) and will kill or be killed without hesitation.
Dwell on that for that for just a moment.
Four VCAs with three known guns, no lead flying, and no emerging hostage situation is a condition no law enforcement agency would advise a single operator to engage with gunfire unless deemed absolutely necessary.
Thinking you, as a civilian CHL, could handle a situation like that is naive and wrong.
Your consideration of even going to gun was wrong unless you or a family member were directly threatened, or perhaps if the VCAs had a hostage whose life you felt was in immediate danger.
In my humble opinion, your chasing after the perps was also wrong. And it was an extremely dangerous thing to do. Get a plate number, get what descriptions you can of the vehicle and the perps, and do your best to be a good witness.
A quote from my favorite Clint Eastwood movie is: "A man's gotta know his limitations."
The job the police do is not what you signed on for when you submitted you CHL application. I think that's an important distinction to realize.
(Edited to make a couple of minor corrections.)
One comment before anything else: Our host here, Charles Cotton, occasionally conducts a seminar on the use and aftermath of deadly force. Watch for it, and if you can attend one in 2009, I strongly recommend it.
A corollary, and one that folks around here get sick of hearing from me: seek out more advanced training from a nationally-known source. I think it's an extremely valuable few-hundred dollars spent for people who decide to carry a gun. No dispersions cast toward your local range instructor, but trainers with a well-known reputation generally bring at least two additional things to the table: significant experience, and an established course curriculum.
Your closing comment is, for me, a vital learning point applicable to everyone:
I often use the phrase, "A gun is not a magic wand." Some have taken that as an affront, but in the 21st century I believe it's something our ancestors knew that our modern, urban society has largely forgotten. A gun is a tool, no more and no less.Gracegarden wrote:Forever in my mind will live this simple, but oh, so important fact... "Carrying a gun does not make you bullet-proof."
And you were absolutely correct to point to movies and TV as a major culprit. Indiana Jones pulls out his revolver and fires 28 rounds without reloading; Angelina Jolie whips her arm and makes the path of a bullet curve; an actor shot in the torso with a handgun is slammed down to the ground; an actor shot with a shotgun is literally blown backward. These idiocies--and dare I include video games?--have completely and bizarrely distorted what a gun is and what it can do.
Although I've never found a definitive study, numerous reports indicate that being shot by a handgun results in an average mortality rate of less than 20%. Meaning over 80% of shooting victims (and I use that term in context only) survive being shot. The mortality rate is much higher for shotguns and rifles.
In many gangs, having the scars to prove you've been shot is a badge of honor. And even if the bad guy doesn't fear your drawn gun because he's been shot before, never assume a VCA (Violent Criminal Actor) is wired the same way you are.
You may be risk-averse about driving without your seatbelt. He may feel he has nothing to lose (or total commitment to La Familia) and will kill or be killed without hesitation.
Dwell on that for that for just a moment.
Down to brass tacks. IMHO.Gracegarden wrote:Oiy! Two might be doable, but four? Three guns? They were going to shoot back!
Four VCAs with three known guns, no lead flying, and no emerging hostage situation is a condition no law enforcement agency would advise a single operator to engage with gunfire unless deemed absolutely necessary.
Thinking you, as a civilian CHL, could handle a situation like that is naive and wrong.
Your consideration of even going to gun was wrong unless you or a family member were directly threatened, or perhaps if the VCAs had a hostage whose life you felt was in immediate danger.
In my humble opinion, your chasing after the perps was also wrong. And it was an extremely dangerous thing to do. Get a plate number, get what descriptions you can of the vehicle and the perps, and do your best to be a good witness.
A quote from my favorite Clint Eastwood movie is: "A man's gotta know his limitations."
The job the police do is not what you signed on for when you submitted you CHL application. I think that's an important distinction to realize.
(Edited to make a couple of minor corrections.)