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Ruark

Keith B wrote:
Ruark wrote:
So in your opinion, two signs separated by 25 feet constitutes "a sign"? What if they were 40 feet apart? 60? 80? 100? At what point would you stop calling it "a sign"?
At this point you are trying any twisted angle to start an argument. There are reasonable exceptions and unrealistic arguments. Stop trying to pick a fight and discuss logically or drop the discussion.

You're the one who's trying to pick a fight. I'm trying to ask a VERY VERY simple question, although I realize your answers are ultimately just opinion.

Let me repeat the original question.

The law states "a sign... which includes.... both English and Spanish..."

Given that a sign which includes ONLY one language isn't legal (although I'd never carry past one), do two "single signs," one English and one Spanish, 25 feet apart meet the requirement? Can we just answer this "yes, because...." or "no, because...."? Is that asking too much?

Ruark

thetexan wrote:
Breny414 wrote:Looking up the definition of "Sign" via Google, it says, "A notice that is publicly displayed." It makes no mention of substrate, same substrate, etc., etc..

By definition, HEB meets the requirements, even if their Spanish and English notice is separated by the doors.

So in your opinion, two signs separated by 25 feet constitutes "a sign"? What if they were 40 feet apart? 60? 80? 100? At what point would you stop calling it "a sign"?

Ruark

Why do some people try to turn every discussion into a debate or argument? That's not the intent here. Cripes.

The law says, very clearly, "a sign..." and that sign must contain the correct text in both English and Spanish. I do NOT want to be the test case for it, but technically, an English-only or Spanish-only sign isn't valid. We've all seen some signs that are in two parts right next to each other, even touching, one English and one Spanish. So how far apart do they need to be before it could be considered two signs: an English-only and a Spanish-only? I've already seen two cases where it was English only, and I looked around and saw the Spanish version at least 25 feet away.

This whole question may be moot, anyway. At the next legislative session, the Moms are really going to push for an 8 1/2 by 11 gunbuster signage, and they have the full support of the Texas Association of Businesses, which represents over 4,000 Texas businesses and 200 Chambers of Commerce. Texas is, to my knowledge, the only state that requires these big, complex signs, and there's been a lot of complaining and confusion from business owners about them. The gunbuster sign failing, it's also possible that a compromise sign might evolve, a single sign covering all modes of carry.

Ruark

Why are you looking to get past the intent of the store owner?

Why do you assume I'm trying to "get past the intent" of the store owner? I'm just asking whether its legal or not; I have NO intention of violating it either way. Some of you guys just love to throw crap at people. I'm just making conversation here, OK? Keep yer shirt on.

There is no requirement in the law for the sign to be contiguous.

Right, there's not. So I'm just going by the exact language of the law: "A sign ... that includes ... both English and Spanish..." Two signs 30 feet apart isn't exactly "a sign."

Ruark

We're getting off topic. I'm not talking about a card that is handed you per "giving notice." I'm talking about the 30.06 sign that is posted outside. The code says, and I quote:

(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language ... in both English and Spanish;

Don't worry, I have NO intention of walking past any such sign, regardless. I'm just asking out of curiousity if, technically, a "split" sign is legal, as I have seen at some locations where the English and Spanish versions are 20+ feet apart.

Ruark

TrueFlog wrote:
WildBill wrote:Yes, I think you are trying to split hairs. If it came down to the sign you would be busted. Of course IANAL or LEO or DA, etc.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/ ... joTiK.dpuf
I think that depends on what "card or other document" means. To me, the context makes it clear that a sign is not a card. If it were, then there would be no need for section (c)(3)(B). Moreover, if a sign qualifies as a card, then no 30.06 sign would need the Spanish wording. And I think we can all agree that's not the case.

Ruark

I'm seeing more and more "split" signs, where the English and Spanish versions are on two different signs. On some HEB entrances, they're on opposite sides of the door, about 25 feet apart! The penal code says "the sign," not the "the signs." It's singular. This might be splitting hairs, legally, and I don't know how far this would get with an LEO trying to bust you for carrying past it, but I just noticed these "split" signs appearing more and more frequently.

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