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More news from prople in Ukraine. We have a close family friend who immigrated here from Ukraine about 8 years ago. Her parents and two sisters still live over there, in Kharvov, on the outskirts of town. She's been talking to them every day. They pretty much mirror what my wife's cousin, also in Kharkov, has been saying. They want to leave the area and go to western Ukraine, where it's a little quieter, but they can't. The violent Ukrainian nationalists have been blocking the streets, preventing people from leaving. One of her neighbors got in a car and tried to make a run for it, but the Ukranians started shooting at the car and they had to turn around or be killed. The Russians have created several "evacuation corridors" that most refugees have been using, but you still have to get from your home to the corridor. Her parents are elderly and afraid to go outside, for fear the Ukranians will shoot at them from nearby rooftops. Otherwise, they are OK; they have food, water and utilities.
All of them are desperately waiting for the Russians to clear out the nationalists. They're very frustrated and angry at the distorted reports in the western media. They're scared, because they feel it's all about oil and politics, and nobody cares about everyday people.
We will be talking with my wife's cousin, Svetlana, again tomorrow morning via Skype, in east central Kharkov.

Just had another Skype session with my wife's cousin in Kharkov. She lives in the east central part of town. She said everything's quiet around her apartments, they just walked down to the store and got some stuff. Utilities are all working fine. They hear occasional shots off in the distance, but haven't seen anything. They (she, her neighbors and friends, etc.) are anxious for the Russians to clean out the Ukrainian nationalists that have terrorized everybody for 8 years so life can get back to normal. Just passing it on.

Incidentally that photograph of Zelenski in camo was taken last year, while he was visiting Ukrainian troops that were attacking Donetsk.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:58 am

Ruark wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:05 pm Interesting how so many people on this forum lambast the media's distortion and lying on issues like gun control, the democrats, BLM, etc., then suddenly turn and swallow every drop of Koolaid that squirts out of the TV.

Members aren't buying your Putin spin on the facts, so you no attack them personally. Stop now!

Chas.

Sorry, sir, I had no intention of offending anyone here, and certainly not "attacking" anybody. It's just striking how so many of us (on the forum and elsewhere) see the MSM as not to be trusted under any circumstances, and now, suddenly, every word that's printed is treated like some holy gospel. I, for one, have maintained my skepticism. And keep in mind that many of my conclusions are based on information from FAMILY MEMBERS WHO LIVE IN UKRAINE. The last time we Skyped with my wife's cousin in Kharkiv, she was trembling with fear of the Ukrainian nationalists who were shelling people (knowing it would be blamed on the Russians) and blocking streets to prevent people from leaving. She was praying for the Russians to arrive and kill them all. OK, well, yeah, guess she could just be making it all up.... nobody cares.

I admit, this whole thing is ugly, and I'm not inclined to get into a 50 page "analysis and discussion." The best thing to do now is just wait and see how this all pans out, as it will very soon.

By the way... here are some more "facts" that might be helpful. And these are just a drop in the bucket:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 952717001/

Well said, Paladin. And "truth" is definitely the first casualty.

RoyGBiv wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:18 pm If the people of Crimea had a legitimate gripe, there were dozens of ways for them to be heard, short of Russian invasion.

Please explain how sending missiles into apartment buildings in Kyiv, with nearly 200,000 russian soldiers, armor and air assets on the march through a sovereign nation is any sort of "proportional" response to your weak sauce allegations.

Heard? By who? Who was listening? Noboby - except Russia. And even then, they didn't do anything; they just left it up to the Crimeans in a referendum. 85% of the eligible voters voted - 97% voting to join Russia. Tens of thousands of them were celebrating in the streets afterwards (yeah, I know, those were all paid actors....). Russia didn't "invade" or "seize" Crimea, not in any way, shape or form.

I see. So if, say, Russia, wanted to control the Mexican government and put nuclear missles along the Texas border, we shouldn't do anything? It's a legitimate concern, in addition to the ongoing persecution of the people in Donbass. We know, we have friends and relatives who live there. They're terrified of the Ukrainian nationalists, who make our KKK look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

Think about it. Putin is a very shrewd, experienced leader with a razor-sharp mind. Do people really BELIEVE that he would do something like this, knowing FULL WELL the consequences, for NO good reason, just on a personal whim, out of the blue? That's what the media is trying to sell you.

As far as Ukraine itself, I don't give a flip what happens to it. People are suddenly in luuuuuv with Ukraine, and can't even find it on a map, or know anything about it. Ukraine is a worthless, corrupt toilet of a country that produces nothing of value except hate. Fistfights are a regular occurrence in the parliament. Russia has NO use for it; they wouldn't take Ukraine if you gave it to them on a silver platter. After the Crimeans fled to Russia, Ukraine, under the billionaire U.S. puppet Poroshenko, sucked all the free money they could get from the IMF, and when that teat went dry, they started poking at the EU, which has NO desire to let that muddy mutt into their house. When they finally got rid of Poroshenko, they got a TV comedian named Zelinsky, also a billionaire (well, $800 million), who didn't lift a finger to stop the persecution in Donbass (as he promised to do) and jailed his political opponents and anybody else who spoke against him. Yes, it's sad what some Ukrainians on the street are experiencing, I agree. People suffer at the hands of their leaders, often horribly.

Interesting how so many people on this forum lambast the media's distortion and lying on issues like gun control, the democrats, BLM, etc., then suddenly turn and swallow every drop of Koolaid that squirts out of the TV.

srothstein wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:45 pm Did they forget that Russia also invaded Ukraine in 2014? Might be from the wrong invasion but a true photo and statement.

Russia didn't "invade Ukraine." They supported the ethnic Russian population of Crimea, which was being terrorized by the Right Sector extremists and Ukraine's corrupt government; they were even putting people in jail for being caught speaking Russian. 85% of the eligible Crimean voters turned out and 97% of them voted to join Russia; tens of thousands of them were celebrating in the streets afterwards. Of course, the media still drifts to the official narrative, with references to the "invasion" of Crimea, the "seizure of Crimea," etc.

This whole thing is the biggest hoax since "Russian collusion."

I was a little surprised to see this in a rag like USA Today, but they have a nice little collection this morning of fact-checked stories about the Ukraine conflict that sort of supplement what I posted earlier. Check it out:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 952717001/

K.Mooneyham wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:44 pm
Without going into details, I will say I attended a briefing the other day given by a USAF officer of reasonably high rank, locally speaking. The most important thing he and the other briefers said was to read many sources and then employ critical thinking skills when evaluating ALL the information. He specifically stated, to paraphrase, to not simply take anything at face value, from any side.

Wow. He's probably been relieved of duty since I read this...............

I just posted this on a private FB group I'm a member of, and wanted to share it here.

A few words on this Ukrainian mess. As some of you know, my wife immigrated here from Russia 26 years ago. We stay in touch with some of her friends and relatives over there, as well as some of her family members who live in Ukraine. In particular, she has a cousin in Kharkov she talks with "live" on Skype every couple of days, most recently just this morning. So we stay pretty up to date on what's really going on in that part of the world.

Now, the last thing in the world I want to do is type a 100-page "analysis and discussion" on this conflict. Still, I just want to remind everybody that there is a TON of Kool-Aid being passed around, from BOTH sides. Military conflict always sends the media into orgasmic paroxysms; it's the mother and father of all "juicy stories." You know the drill: the cropped photo of the burning building, the closeup of the crying mother, the "on-the-street interviews," etc. A guy firing a gun becomes a "raging street battle." Whatever supports the official narrative.

And of course, politicians delight in war; it's their golden, shining moment to get up in front of the cameras, bask in the floodlights and "talk tough" and pretend to be brave leaders, standing up to the forces of evil and wallowing in imagined self-importance. You will never, NEVER see a more colossal display of politicians' egotistic bloviating than you will during a war situation.

And the latest from Svetlana, our friend in Kharkov? As of this morning, a few distant explosions. Otherwise all is quiet. No tanks in the streets. No "raging street battles." People walking to markets and bus stops. Yes, she is somewhat afraid, not of the Russians, but of violent Ukrainian nationalists.

So, people, don't be, like my mother use to say, "like a blade of grass, swaying back and forth with every puff of wind." See with both eyes; hear with both ears.