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I was looking back through some of the testimony in the only case brought to trial - the one against the Bandido's Dallas Chapter President. One of the Waco officers testified that he shot 4 individuals and another said he shot 2 individuals. The Police Spokesman, Sgt. Swanton said his 3 officers fired a total of 12 shots. They were positioned on the parking lot looking down onto the Twin Peaks parking lot, restaurant and patio area. The autopsy reports of the 9 killed showed: Boyett - shot twice in head entering thru scalp, Campbell - shot once in head downward trajectory thru chin and out back of neck, Jordan - once in head from back to front and downward, Rhyne - thru neck exiting upper back downward, J Rodriguez - head shot front to back and downward, M Rodriguez head shot front to back and downward, Russell upper chest front to back and downward thru heart and lung, Smith one shot thru upper back no remark on trajectory. Out of the 9 killed that day there were 5 head shots, 1 neck shot, 3 upper back and chest. All but one stating a downward trajectory and the other no trajectory given. It appeared from the autopsies that all the bullets were jacketed but most were through and through shots and they just identified fragments of copper jackets and various lead traces and in a couple it said they appeared to be from medium caliber projectiles. In one case it said the fragments indicated a large caliber projectile . All the shots fired by the bikers were from handguns, most as they were running and ducking for cover. Hard to imagine how that would result in all those head and upper body shots with a downward trajectory. I think a lot of the 20 wounded may have been from the bikers spraying bullets at each other, but I believe most of those killed with one or two exceptions were from the rifle fire from the police officers.

mojo84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:09 pm I suspect it's hard to discern friendly fire from bad guy fire. There has to be some bad actors involved. No chance everyone is innocent.

Absolutely ! There is also no chance that everyone there was guilty of a crime either. That's where the whole situation got tainted. The DA arrived on the scene and instructed the police to arrest everyone there that had shown up for the meeting regardless of their affiliation or lack thereof with any of the actual gang members.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:26 pm

tomneal wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:05 pm Not a single successful prosecution?

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 ... ore-162054

I guess the two that got dropped by police snipers were "successfully prosecuted"?

I believe there was testimony and evidence, in the only trial, that indicated the officers that had set up around the area with rifles were responsible for more than two people being shot. The biggest issue with the former DA (Reyna), was the blanket indictment issued for everyone at the scene under the "ongoing criminal activity" (RICO) statute. The majority of the people arrested out of the 187 were not members of either the Bandidos or Cossacks. They were charged, arrested and jailed and given a $1 million dollar bond. Many of them remained in jail for months because they couldn't come up with a $100,000 for a bondsman. They wound up losing their jobs and homes. The police confiscated all the motorcycles under the same statutes and none of the property was returned to them after they were released. The DA was already being investigated by the FBI for influence peddling and taking bribes to dismiss charges before this happened. Reyna had boasted to his staff and friends that he was going to "ride this case into the Govenor's office". The prosecution went way overboard with the blanket indictment.

dlh wrote:A few things come to mind which are pure speculation. Maybe the D.A. did not carefully screen these cases prior to indictment. Maybe law enforcement "pressured" the D.A. to pursue the cases. There is definitely a story or stories here---hopefully it will come out eventually.

Pretty much the exact opposite--he didn't screen them at all. The DA instructed the police department to arrest everyone at the scene, regardless of whether they were a member of the Bandidos or Cossacks or not. I believe it was around 187 people locked up. The DA issued a blanket indictment charging EVERYONE arrested with being involved in an ongoing criminal conspiracy (Racketeering). The DA had everyone arrested put on a $1million dollar bond. The DA was in charge of all of it. He has been under investigation by the FBI for influence peddling and payoffs. He dismissed charges for friends. He was overheard saying he would "ride this case into the Govenor's office". There were innocent people that stayed locked up for months because they couldn't afford a $100k for a bondsman. People lost their jobs and their homes while incarcerated. The Police Dept. confiscated all of the motorcycles and vehicles belonging to those arrested because of the Racketeering charges. They have not returned any of them. It's been almost 3 years now, and the majority of the cases have still not been dismissed. The whole operation stinks. The only case tried in 3 years was the DA's strongest case against the president of the Dallas Bandidos chapte,r and he couldn't get a conviction on it. But he spent $1.2 million in additional costs to try it due to bringing in 3 different judges and prosecutors and paying overtime for additional security around the courthouse during the hearing and trial. The people of McLennan county along with the rest of the administration got fed up with him.

The McLennan County Commissioners voted to put a spending limit on the DA's office for the remainder of Abel Reyna's term to prevent him from draining the account before he leaves office. They would have to approve any additional expenditures beyond those necessary to run the office. Reading between the lines, they don't intend to let him squander millions more on any other additional Twin Peaks trials for the remainder of his term.

The DA in question (Abel Reyna) was defeated in last nights primary. Now that it can't help him in the election, I expect he will sit on the other defendant's dismissals just out of spite, and make them wait for the new DA to take office and clean house.

This case was their strongest one and they couldn't get close to a verdict. KWTX posted a story that stated one of the jurors said there were never less than six jurors that voted not guilty on any of the three counts charged. Carrizal was President of the Dallas Bandidos Chapter. Honestly, if they couldn't get a guilty verdict on a single count against him, they are wasting the taxpayers time and money going after the rest of the people indicted in this fiasco.

Beiruty wrote:
They can sue for damages.

Yes they can--at some point. A large number of them are still facing a trial with no idea when that may occur. It's been two years already and the first trial-- for the president of the Dallas Bandidos chapter-- just started 2 weeks ago. That's the prosecution's biggest case and it's already had multiple delays to recuse one judge and the the DA. That's why I said previously it's already cost the county millions to get to the point of prosecuting their first case and the potential lawsuits down the road from the weak cases will cost them much more than the actual trials.

BBYC wrote:

talltex wrote:

BBYC wrote:As long as no innocent bystanders were hurt, it sounds like a win for society.

There is no doubt that the Bandidos and many other 1% clubs are involved in drug trafficking. The Bandidos have been calling the shots since back in the 70's. That doesn't excuse the actions of the overzealous DA in McLennan County in the blanket arrest of everyone at that COC meeting

I was talking about the shooting. No more. No less.

Carry on.

I understand you were referring to those who were shot--by each other, or by the police officers (two officers I believe have already testified that they shot 4 of the 9 persons killed). However, there were many innocent bystanders that were hurt, but not shot. How would you have been affected if you were arrested and incarcerated on an "organized crime" felony charge, with $1 million bail ? Not because there was any evidence of you actually participating in the fighting or shooting, but simply because you were there. Those that couldn't come up with $100,000 to pay a bondsman sat in jail for weeks. Some lost their jobs. All of them lost personal property. They had their motorcycles seized and confiscated by the DA's office and the police department, as being used in an ongoing organized criminal activity. Many of them still face tremendous legal expenses and uncertainty about the future because the DA's office doesn't want to admit that they overreached in filing the mass charges to begin with. In my opinion, those people have been hurt terribly and unfairly.

BBYC wrote:As long as no innocent bystanders were hurt, it sounds like a win for society.

There is no doubt that the Bandidos and many other 1% clubs are involved in drug trafficking. The Bandidos have been calling the shots since back in the 70's. That doesn't excuse the actions of the overzealous DA in McLennan County in the blanket arrest of everyone at that COC meeting, or the inaction of the police on the scene that left wounded and injured people laying on the ground without medical attention. They kept 177 people in jail for weeks with million dollar bonds charging everyone there with engaging in organized criminal activity. The majority of those people were not affiliated with the Bandidos or the Cossacks. This case is going to cost McLennan County many millions of dollars just to prosecute and many millions more in lawsuits before it's over. The DA's office has already been paying additional lawyers and staff for two years, and three Judges that have gotten involved have managed to get themselves recused and replaced by outside Judges from elsewhere, because they want to disassociate themselves from the case. The DA that filed on everyone has been recused along with several of the Assistant DA's. They are all being replaced with Special Prosecutors from outside the area, while the ones that created this mess are still drawing their salaries and watching from the sidelines. This will drag on for a long time.

Yep... and the blanket arrest with everyone there being charged with criminal conspiracy/racketeering. A lot of the people there were not Bandidos or Cossacks and were not there to get into a brawl or shootout and still wound up sitting in jail for weeks unable to get bail set. I think there will wind up being a bunch of lawsuits filed against McLennan County and Waco PD by the time it's all sorted out.

jmra wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Yeah, maybe the cops knew what they were doing after all. Doesn't sound like a bunch of Christians professionals out for a weekend ride and a gathering to discuss motorcycle safety updates.

All that information considered, I still think that a lot of people that really didn't have anything to do with the actual violence, got swept up in the arrests without any real tangible evidence of any specific offense. They were ALL charged and held under the RICO act on the basis of if they were a member of either the Bandidos or Cossacks MC's ...or....any "support clubs" affiliated with either group, then they were "engaged in ongoing organized criminal activity". That's probably fairly accurate, but when these cases start going to trial, I think 75%+ of the charges will be dismissed because the level of proof required under the RICO act is pretty strong. Just being a member of one of the groups is not sufficient. The law was passed to give the prosecutors in "mafia" cases a charge that carried severe penalties beyond a simple charge or extortion, assault, smuggling, etc....but just saying the an individual was Italian or some other ethnicity, and was known to hang out with other guys that had all been convicted of various charges was not enough. The prosecution still had to show that they had individually participated in specific crimes within a structured organization over a period time. That's where the laws allowing for wiretapping came from...because it's very difficult to meet that standard of proof without having records of planning and discussing criminal activity, and about the only other way to get it, is with undercover operatives that can testify that they HEARD certain people talking about planned criminal acts in an ongoing manner. I think they will be able to convict those that they can prove were involved in felony offenses THAT day on lesser charges and maybe some of the chapter presidents and officers that they can show issued orders for members from outlying areas to show up.

esxmarkc wrote:Interesting article pertaining to this case.

Vehicle forfeiture documents reveal new details about deadly biker shootout

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks ...

I read that earlier tonight...a lot of info in the comments from both Cossacks and Bandidos members. Some of them pretty open about it, saying they were called to show up there from out of the area and told to come prepared. Several stated they came armed with guns and knives and threw them down after the shooting. One of them was identifiable on video shooting someone then throwing the pistol down in the parking lot and walking away and he admitted it. Two officers came around the corner of the building and saw two Bandidos shooting a Cossack that was laying on the ground, who then dropped their weapons at the officer's command. The police had talked to the local Cossacks chapter President, at his motorcycle dealership in Waco, before the event, and he told them he and his son (who is Sergeant at Arms of the chapter) were expecting trouble and were prepared for it and were going to attend the meeting.

VMI77 wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

DocV wrote:http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks ... 6efa0.html

Waco Tribune wrote:The release also states the number of weapons discovered at the crime scene has increased to 475 “and may continue to increase.” The list includes 151 firearms, 12 of which were long guns. Other weapons include knives, brass knuckles, batons, tomahawks, weighted weapons, a hatchet, stun guns, bats, clubs, a machete, a pipe, an ax, pepper spray and a chain.

“Some were found using metal detectors as they were buried beneath the grass in the dirt,” the release said.

Why are they assuming that weapons found buried in the ground belonged to the bikers?

I'm more interested in when this burying took place and how.....either they buried weapons while under police observation or they would have had to bury them in advance of the meeting. Seems a little strange that people burying guns in a shopping center wouldn't be noticed by anyone or draw any attention. And how were they buried....just in the dirt, inside plastic bags, etc? How deep? When they were burying these guns were they wearing their MC gear or had they disguised themselves as gardeners or something? Did they use their hands or were they out digging holes around the shopping center with shovels? Did both sides in the conflict bury weapons, and if so, how did they make sure they didn't run into the other side at the time? How long beforehand were the guns buried...the night before, week before, month before? Seems like the longer they were in the ground the greater the chance of being discovered, and if they did it just prior, since the police were on to this meeting, were they watching the shopping center? If they weren't why weren't they? If they were did the police dig the weapons up before the meeting to deny one possibility of escalation? If not, why not? If they needed the weapons how were they going to retrieve them in a fight? Dig holes in exposed positions while the bullets were flying? If the police had to use metal detectors to find them how were they going to find them in a firefight? If they planned to dig them up before the fight how were they going to do it without tipping off the other side, and why didn't they dig them up? Were they throwaways or were they going to come back and dig them up later if they weren't needed, risking another opportunity to be caught?

I think the likely case is not that they were burying anything beforehand. They had all the people they detained standing and sitting around the parking lots and on the grassy area for 3-5 hours after the fight before they started processing them and taking them downtown. Look back at some of the photos and you can see guys lined up sitting on the curb around the shrubs and beds filled with mulch. I doubt that very many of the "weapons" recovered were guns but with all the folks milling around for several hours it wouldnt be very hard to remove a knife or spray or knuckles or even a pistol from a boot or inside vest pocket and unobtrusively slide it under the mulch or in the case of a knife push it down into the grass all the way. There's going to be a LOT of legal problems for the prosecution to overcome to link anyone other than the Bandidos or Cossacks to the organized crime charges...and even there it's not going to be a slam dunk by any means. The ones they can spot on video actually participating in the fight can probably be convicted on other charges than RICO.

Dave2 wrote:

DocV wrote:http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks ... 6efa0.html

Waco Tribune wrote:The release also states the number of weapons discovered at the crime scene has increased to 475 “and may continue to increase.” The list includes 151 firearms, 12 of which were long guns. Other weapons include knives, brass knuckles, batons, tomahawks, weighted weapons, a hatchet, stun guns, bats, clubs, a machete, a pipe, an ax, pepper spray and a chain.

“Some were found using metal detectors as they were buried beneath the grass in the dirt,” the release said.

Why are they assuming that weapons found buried in the ground belonged to the bikers?

An "educated guess"? The place has only been open a few months, and anything buried in the dirt prior to that, would have been bladed up during site prep for the construction, so aside from this incident, how many other patrons would have had any reason to do so? I can't really see that it will have any use as far as the prosecution is concerned, because while I think it's a pretty valid assumption, it would be very difficult to prove any of it.