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texanjoker wrote:The grand jury has cleared the officers and that is why I await the facts vs jumping on the bandwagon . Glad to see the truth came out vs the media hype! This suspect should not have picked the gun back up and pointed it at the officers. Obviously the grand jury agreed.

The CLEAT Legal Team spent countless hours preparing for this Grand Jury presentation. After a weeklong proceeding, the Grand Jury concluded last week that the actions of Officer Hoeppner to be reasonable and justified under the facts and evidence presented.

I will agree the Grand Jury failed to indict Officer Hoeppner and found his actions to be justified under the facts and evidence presented. I can't agree that this guarantees the truth came out. According to the CLEAT publicity statement, one of their lawyers arrived on the scene within minutes of the shooting (and I expect was immediately instructing the officers on what to say and what not to say). CLEAT attorneys were informed a couple of months ago by the DA's office that their office would not be making a statement or recommendation to the Grand Jury or presenting any expert witness for the officer's defense, which CLEAT said was contrary to normal procedure in an officer involved shooting. This led CLEAT to believe that the DA's office thought he would be indicted, so they scrambled a top "Grand Jury Defense Team" to prevent that from happening. I've read through the complete investigative report issued by the department and presented to the Grand Jury. That department statement, along with the testimony of Officers Hoeppner & Hanlon and a forensic witness was what the Grand Jury had to base its decision on. The forensic expert said that one of the shots struck Waller's hand/wrist first and then his torso, indicating he had his arm raised in front of him. According to CLEAT's lawyers, that was proof that Mr. Waller was pointing his gun at Officer Hoeppner intending to shoot him. The truth is, there's no way of knowing if that wound was from the first or last shot fired and it could just as easily happened because Waller threw up his arm instinctively to shield himself when Hoeppner opened fire on him. Only three people know what was actually said and done that night, and the only version of the "facts" the Grand Jury heard was from the two that survived and were facing criminal or civil charges for their actions. I don't believe that Hoeppner shot Waller out of malice...I think it was probably a combination of lack of experience, panic and pumping adrenaline. But the one fact, that I believe to be indisputable, is that Mr. Waller would be alive if the Officers had not screwed up and gone to the wrong address to begin with.

n5wd wrote:

jbarn wrote:The Grand Jury reviewed evidence we will never see. All we know is what the media decides we should know.

Let's correct that a little bit, if you don't mind...

The Grand Jury reviewed evidence we will never see. All we know is what the media decides we should know from what the police administration gave them officially, and police officers gave them unofficially.

It's very difficult for a Grand Jury to indict a police officer of a criminal charge UNLESS the department is pressing the case...usually in something involving corruption or sexual assault. In an officer involved shooting like this one, the Grand Jury will only hear what the DA's office and the Department present to them...there is no one there representing Mr. Waller. That won't be the case in the civil action the family will undoubtedly file. There would have been no "failure to comply" by Mr. Waller, had the officers not gone to the wrong address to begin with. They approached on foot, and walked up the driveway. The video and pictures show the street address clearly painted, in large block letters, on the curb at the end of the driveway that they walked right past as they went around to the back of the wrong house. The Chief said it was an unfortunate tragedy, and blamed "poor lighting in the neighborhood" and "faulty data in the department's GPS mapping software". The two officers will never be the same and will have to live with it...Jerry Waller doesn't have that option.

EEllis wrote:

talltex wrote:

drjoker wrote:The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

Yep because bad guys always stay at the reported address and never hid nearby in things like sheds and, oh my, garages.

REALLY EEllis ? Call me silly, but it sure seems like "the reported address" might just be a good place to start before wandering off elsewhere and shooting an innocent homeowner in his own garage... ya' think???

drjoker wrote:The fact of the matter is, that this is a case of mistaken identity, HOWEVER, if the tables were turned and the old man shot the cop, I seriously doubt that the old man would be out on "administrative PAID leave."

Not JUST mistaken identity...gross negligence also...they were at the wrong address. They responded to an alarm across the street...they approached on foot and walked up the driveway, which has the street address number clearly painted on the curb right at the driveway entrance, and shot Mr. Waller in his own garage when he raised the door.

carlson1 wrote:According to NBC 5 in Dallas the Ft. Worth Police Department blamed "poor lighting" for the reason they shot Mr. Jerry Waller.

It is reported that the Ft. Worth PD said all the officers had were flashlights.

Hmmm....I guess it must've been dark back there... behind the wrong house...and the flashlights might have been defective, since the officers didn't notice the address numbers painted on the curb of the driveway they used to walk behind the house...and maybe Mr. Waller's garage light didn't come on when he raised his garage door and was shot by the officers. Yep, I bet that excuse makes all the folk in the neighborhood feel much better. Probably be a run on outdoor floodlights at Home Depot tomorrow to avoid getting blamed if they get shot by mistake too.

The department should have announced they were having an outside agency conduct an investigation immediately. Their failure to do so just fuels the fire that this incident has created, and every day that they continue to delay doing so, further undermines the FWPD's credibilty with the people they are sworn to "protect and serve". They are in a public relations nightmare, and their insistence that they are conducting a "thorough and transparent" investigation "in-house" just fans the flames of public suspicion and distrust which will continue for weeks or months until the results are released. They may very well conduct an exemplary investigation themselves, but regardless of their conclusion, the damage to their image and the ill will generated from now until it is completed, will be tremendous. Possibly, the department is "too close to the trees to see the forest" because they view it as a personal attack on their integrity. If so, the Mayor and City Council need to step in and insist they back away and let someone else take charge of it, in the best interest of everyone.

texanjoker wrote:

A burglary alarm call is way to common, and in my experience of going to hundreds of false residential alarms, a true waste of tax payer resources. Many larger cities are stopping the response all together unless there is something more. It is always the home owner setting it off accidentally. I cannot even recall ever responding to a valid residential alarm. Regarding experience, you are going to get whatever two units are available. If they were on their own, they are out of the training car and respond to calls accordingly. That is how it works everywhere. If something comes up, then a supervisor or senior officer will respond to assist if warranted.

I read some postings in here about the wrong address. It is easy to not find the correct address in the dark. Many people have poor if no lighting, and do not have their address displayed in a visible manner. When responding to calls like this, you want the element of surprise and are not going to spot light each house to find an address because you have to treat each alarm as a potential valid alarm. Everybody should take the time and make sure they have it on their house. One day you may need EMS and the extra time they take trying to find the house could be deadly.

I agree that having PD responding to alarm calls is a huge waste of taxpayer money...all that does is support the companies that sell the alarm systems, and provide the purchasers with a false sense of security. I also agree with your comments on experience...in an ideal world it'd be nice to always have an older more experienced officer on the scene, but that's not realistic, and at some point the rookies have to be cut loose on their own. Anytime something like this happens, you can always wonder if more experience might have made a difference, but we will never know. As to the wrong address...there I will take issue...the officers have the duty and responsibility to make SURE they are at the right location BEFORE they take any aggressive action, period. The risks to both the homeowner and the officers are just too high to do otherwise. If they have ANY doubt, then they don't need to be walking around to the backside of the property unannounced...better to let a "possible" burglar get away, than get in this situation. In this case, if you look at the video, you can plainly see the address stenciled on the curb at the end of the driveway...right where they approached. They just screwed up and went to the wrong house, and killed an innocent man because of their mistakes.

Keith B wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

puma guy wrote:Wandering around on your property with a visible weapon in the dead of night is certainly not advisable.

Seriously? On MY PROPERTY? Then we may as well all be disarmed if the police can come on our property and kill us just because we have a gun ---which btw, is not illegal. On occasion I wander around my property in the dead of night with an AR15 in hand --I don't think that gives the police the right to shoot me. Also, the accounts say he was standing in his garage, not wandering around. Here's what we know for sure, as most of the comments following the article reflect: if the situation was reversed, and this man, on his OWN PROPERTY, had mistakenly shot a police officer wandering around in the dark with a gun in his hand because he felt "threatened," he'd be in jail right now, he'd be charged with murder, and he'd go to prison. It wouldn't matter that he felt threatened, that it was dark, that he didn't realize they were police, that it wasn't intentional, or that he was on his OWN PROPERTY.

I look at this like vehicles taking the right of way. It may be your right, but a lot of people get killed by forcing that right of way.

At this point we don't know all of the detials. A case of mistaken address, etc can all lead up to you being dead. The shooter may be in the wrong, but you are in the ground.

I'm sorry...but this is not a "tragic incident"...the man, who is now dead, did nothing wrong. The officers went to the WRONG ADDRESS and shot him when he opened his garage door with a gun in his hand. When he stepped out into his garage, he had absolutely no reason to anticipate that two armed police officers were on HIS property looking for a burglar. He lost his life because the officers made a series of mistakes...not because of anything he did wrong. This type of error...going to the wrong place and shooting an innocent citizen...has been occurring far to frequently in the last few years to simply label them an "unfortunate accident". As VMI77 said, if the situation was reversed the homeowner would be in jail...(IF he was very lucky). I understand Keith's point that a case of mistaken address, etc., can all lead up to you being dead and that you can be right and still be in the ground...but that doesn't excuse those errors or make them acceptable. As a private citizen, I am held liable for my mistakes, that cause loss, injury or damage to anyone else, and the officers/department should be also.