Return to “Gang members with LTC”
cb1000rider wrote: No one here wants active violent criminals to be licensed to carry firearms. But clearly there are many of us who don't want to put our gun rights in the hands of anyone working for the government without some level of judicial oversight.
If the guys aren't involved in criminal activity, whats the big deal?nightmare69 wrote:When I was in a gang training course taught by a local gang detective, he said that our area(also the area of my campus)is starting to see known gang members with valid LTC. The kicker is if they are not involved in any criminal activity there is nothing we can do about it because there isn't any stipulation forbidding gang members from applying for a LTC.
When you say "whenever", do you mean whenever you have contact with gang members and one if them is committing a crime, you arrest everyone of them under TPC 71.02 or just whenever you have contact with them?nightmare69 wrote:Whenever I've had contact with known gangs I try to charge them under TPC 71.02 and add on TPC: 71.028 to enhance it if the D.A. will take it.
If you take their LTC based on the fact that you believe they are gang members, what do you do with their firearms if you revoke then on the streets? Would you hand the pistol back to the "gang member" and let him be on his way or take it away since he can't carry under MPA?nightmare69 wrote:Unless there is prior or current criminal activity taking place then our hands are tied as it is not a crime to be a member of a criminal street gang. There needs to be some stipulation that allows LE to be able to revoke their license if we can prove they are a gang member.
talltex wrote:to address each of the highlighted statements:nightmare69 wrote:I believe after 5yrs of a clean record they are taken off the gang information system in Texas. I've applied for access to this great system.cb1000rider wrote:I'll admit that I can't. Some of the biggest dirtbags on the planet tend to wear suits and ties and are much more dangerous to our wallets than a someone who wears less acceptable forms of clothing.Abraham wrote:nightmare69 ,
Some of us (for instance, you...) can identify a dirtbag when you see a dirtbag.
I'm fine with LTC getting taken away if gang membership is proven through a judicial process. I just don't want to shift the burden of proof the other way by abusing the legal process.
What do you do with "gang members" who turn their lives around and have no criminal record? Are they banned for life?
1. Just being a "dirtbag" isn't an illegal act. Until they've committed a criminal offense they are just a law abiding "dirtbag" with the same rights as anyone else.
2. I can't even agree with revoking a license just because they are proven to be a member of a particular group if they've never been arrested and convicted of anything. I personally can't stand rap music, sagging pants, sideways caps, or tattoos...but I don't have the right to tell others what they can listen to or wear or do to their own bodies as long as they are not committing illegal acts.
3. This whole discussion was about people that ALREADY have a CLEAN record...which was frustrating your desire to revoke their LTC.
I also don't like sagging pants, sideways caps, etc. but people can express themselves and it doesn't matter what I think. They have the right to express themselves just like everyone else. Not everyone who dresses that way is a criminal or gang member. I would never think about wearing my cap sideways but I shouldn't lose my right to carry a weapon to defend my family if for some crazy reason I decide to turn my cap 90 degrees. I can too...Abraham wrote:nightmare69 ,
Some of us (for instance, you...) can identify a dirtbag when you see a dirtbag.
Now here is a question about the university you work for. Do they have a dress code they want you to enforce? Are prohibited colors mentioned or do they let you use your personal preference when it comes to deciding what is appropriate? If they don't have a dress code, why harass people over their clothes?nightmare69 wrote:I work for a private university and can usually tell if someone doesn't belong there. It's not hard to spot gang tattoos and clothing style. On private property I can tell someone to leave because I don't like the color of their shoes so yes, I approach these people regularly.Javier730 wrote:How would you prove someone is in a street gang if they aren't caught committing crimes? What probable cause do you use to stop and identify someone, if they aren't committing crimes. You would need their identification so you know who's name to submit to the DPS. Do you stop someone who you believe may look like a gang member?nightmare69 wrote:We should be able to fill out the paperwork to send to DPS as we do now when we arrest a LTC holder. Then they suspend the license pending final disposition. The process should be the same for a gang member.chamberc wrote:"LE" citizens should not have any allowance to revoke anything. That's what courts are for.nightmare69 wrote:There needs to be some stipulation that allows LE to be able to revoke their license if we can prove they are a gang member.
Does anyone know if they ask if you are a gang member on the LTC application?
Well it might work in the private university you work for but that really has nothing to do with the question I asked.nightmare69 wrote:I work for a private university and can usually tell if someone doesn't belong there. It's not hard to spot gang tattoos and clothing style. On private property I can tell someone to leave because I don't like the color of their shoes so yes, I approach these people regularly.Javier730 wrote:How would you prove someone is in a street gang if they aren't caught committing crimes? What probable cause do you use to stop and identify someone, if they aren't committing crimes. You would need their identification so you know who's name to submit to the DPS. Do you stop someone who you believe may look like a gang member?nightmare69 wrote:We should be able to fill out the paperwork to send to DPS as we do now when we arrest a LTC holder. Then they suspend the license pending final disposition. The process should be the same for a gang member.chamberc wrote:"LE" citizens should not have any allowance to revoke anything. That's what courts are for.nightmare69 wrote:There needs to be some stipulation that allows LE to be able to revoke their license if we can prove they are a gang member.
Does anyone know if they ask if you are a gang member on the LTC application?
How would you prove someone is in a street gang if they aren't caught committing crimes? What probable cause do you use to stop and identify someone, if they aren't committing crimes. You would need their identification so you know who's name to submit to the DPS. Do you stop someone who you believe may look like a gang member?nightmare69 wrote:We should be able to fill out the paperwork to send to DPS as we do now when we arrest a LTC holder. Then they suspend the license pending final disposition. The process should be the same for a gang member.chamberc wrote:"LE" citizens should not have any allowance to revoke anything. That's what courts are for.nightmare69 wrote:There needs to be some stipulation that allows LE to be able to revoke their license if we can prove they are a gang member.
Does anyone know if they ask if you are a gang member on the LTC application?
suthdj wrote:I don't disagree with that, I just don't like laws that affect the 99.9% because .01% are misfits. I guess if we have honest law-abiding gang bangers that isn't so bad, however once they cross the line they lose the LTC, and will still carry anyway.nightmare69 wrote:It could be a slippery slope but I don't like the fact that fellow LTC holders are Cossacks or Aryan Circle. These gangs are getting smart and blessing in guys with a clean record and then using this to their advantage.
We should be able to at least file a case with DPS and present evidence to their gang affiliation and let them make the call of revoking their license.