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SewTexas wrote:n5wd, I would like a response from page 3 about the recruiters, because if this is current it does need to be referred to certain people so it can be addressed.

That's easy -call up your local recruiters and ask. If I was given bad info, Let me know, OK?

VMI77 wrote:

n5wd wrote:

Keith B wrote:While I think distance learning and computer based courses have their place, school is not all about curriculum. I learned a lot of things like social interaction, friendship, how to fight, how to love, etc. While there have always been bad things at school, playing sports, being in teh band, school clubs, and other activities are a part of my life that I would not want to have missed.

My "classroom" is a distance learning computer lab - and I can agree with you that distance learning has it's place. And, I agree 100% about the social aspects of school, and don't forget all of the folks you've met who might continue to play a big part in your life.

I get it...you're a teacher, so you're biased against homeschooling, and have only seen it from the outside.

If you're going to assign my beliefs for me, then the least you should do is to have some basis for those beliefs that you assign me. Reading my previous posts, completely, and not just taking little bits out of context would be a good start.

I have said many times before that I am a teacher in a public high school. I work in a public school system that is legislatively mandated by the State of Texas. It is required to take all comers. White, black, Asian, Indian, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Wiccan and the kids without religion. We take the jocks and the nerds, guys, girls, and those that aren't quite sure. Straight, gay, etc. The really smart and the not-really smart. Those that have money and two-parent families, and those that are being raised by a single parent who works 20 hours a day. So many of our kids are profoundly disadvantaged through socio-economic, familial, or geographic situations. We don't turn anyone away except for those that violate the laws of the state and are removed from our school system by law.

All that said, a parent or guardian that has the desire and ability to home school should make the decision that they think is best for their family. I have absolutely no problem with someone wanting to home school their child, as long as they do it with a good program that will provide adequate opportunities for the child to learn those things that he/she will need when she/he becomes an adult. I espouse no particular brand or method - I like parochial schools (I even attended a couple while I was growing up in my travels as an Air Force brat), and charter schools give parents a lot of choice, while still being funded by the state, at least in part.

Let me say that again - I think there are some great homeschooling packages or programs out there, and I think there are some that do families and children a disservice. Right now, I've got some kiddohs who were previously homeschooled, and for one reason or another, the parents chose to put them back into the public schools. Some of the kids make the transfer without acquiring any academic deficiencies... others don't. Usually, it's because a kiddoh hasn't taken a course that they should have by their current level, or the course or courses that they did take were not judged acceptably equivalent by the Texas Education Agency, and the kiddoh will take credit recovery courses to earn the credit back. The same thing happens when a kiddoh transfers in from out-of-state - they might not have something they need right now. That's where I come in. Over the last two years of doing this assignment, I've had probably 20 ex-home schoolers and a whole buncha out-of-state or out-of-country transfers in my labs (along with the kids who didn't pass their courses in the first place).

My wife and I also have friends who are homeschooling, and we've both been "visiting teachers" for classes with some of the kids on the occasion that we could help with some special info we had that the parents didn't.

Back to the original point - I am only biased against bad or inadequate homeschooling, just as I am biased against bad or inadequate charter schools, parochial schools, or even public schools! There - do what you will with that, ok?

VMI77 wrote:Because they were homeschooled, both boys got to travel with me on work trips, so they got to see places all over the country, as well as visit numerous museums and historical locations. They got to travel in Europe, Latin America, Mexico, and the Caribbean. They've been to the Louvre and the Antikensammlungen in Munich (along with other museums). They've seen the real Oktoberfest. They saw Nuremberg and the home town of Ablrecht Durer. They've seen endemic poverty in Columbia, cruised Alaskan waters, and passed through the Panama Canal. They've walked the Tower Bridge and seen the Crown Jewels in London, visited the Royal castle in Edinburgh, and walked the streets of Dublin. None of this would have been possible if they had attended public school.

It sounds like you've got some great kids, well rounded and well adjusted. It's obvious that they had some parents that had the resources to be able to give them things that many families couldn't. That's the point that, I think, is missing in a lot of the public school versus charter school versus homeschooling debates (arguments). It takes a family with resources (not just money, but time, space, and careers that allow the parents to be involved on a full-time basis, and not everyone has that ability or resources.

Dragonfighter wrote:

n5wd wrote:<SNIP>

The problem is that your child is go to university, to a job, or into the military (unless you're going to put em to work on the family farm) in a world where there are drug dealers, child predators, rapists, armed robbers, murderers, kidnappers, random bullies and where there are folks in authority of all kinds that may be in disagreement with what you think is a constitutional principle. Are you going to put your child in a bubble and withdraw them from any chance of making their own way in this world?

<SNIP>

A bubble? I call nonsense. You can almost always tell a home educated child by their manners, respect and the ability to communicate well with adults and kids of all ages. They have more opportunities to socialize across a larger spectrum of ages and personalities than any child in an institutionalized school could hope for. Segregating children according to age does nothing to promote social interaction, at least not in a real world way, but it does promote peer dependency. Home schooled children are taught how to learn and how to reason, not just indoctrinated.

Colleges in most states accept applicants based on entrance exams, not where their diploma is from. Some Universities exist primarily for the home school community. The Marines were on the forefront of accepting home school diplomas, but there is some subjectivity still applied there. Some colleges promote scholarships for home schooled students. Stanford University enrolled home schooled students at a ratio of two to one in 2002-2003 (IIRC). A good many of them are entrepreneurs by the time they reach college age and are very successful without any further "education".

Don't let your profession blind you to the reality and cause you to repeat the propaganda of the school system's statism.

And, in return, don't assume that your beliefs about the whole world are the only ones that are valid. FWIW, I heartily encourage parents who wish to, and who can do, to home school. But, not all home schoolers are angels, and not all public schools are devils. There are all kinds of kids out there, and not all home school programs are equal, either.

BTW, according to the recruiters who come and visit with us, none of the services are presently accepting home school diplomas as equivalent to a public high school diploma. They do accept charter school diplomas as Tier 1, but home school is considered Tier 2, and not acceptable. That's for an enlistment. Home schoolers can get an appointment to one of the service academies, but cuurently, can not enlist.

Keith B wrote:While I think distance learning and computer based courses have their place, school is not all about curriculum. I learned a lot of things like social interaction, friendship, how to fight, how to love, etc. While there have always been bad things at school, playing sports, being in teh band, school clubs, and other activities are a part of my life that I would not want to have missed.

My "classroom" is a distance learning computer lab - and I can agree with you that distance learning has it's place. And, I agree 100% about the social aspects of school, and don't forget all of the folks you've met who might continue to play a big part in your life.

Keith B wrote: Sitting a kid behind a computer screen all day to 'learn' would do nothing to help promote how to work with others and potentially turn many into worse social introverts than we already are getting today from kids who do nothing but play video games and play on the Internet.

I've got "super-seniors" in my classes that are doing that exact thing, all day every day, trying to catch up on courses they should have passed the first time through, and I can tell you that, at least in my class, they don't turn into social introverts (they LIVE for the passing periods when they go and meet with their friends) and don't spend a large amount of time playing games or texting. That is, of course, because I and the teachers that work with me in the lab monitor their activities, both electronically and with Management By Walking Around (MBWO). A classroom where the teacher sits behind the desk, reads a paper, and ignores the activities in the classroom is not one you'll find at our school! That's the key - we want them to get done and get graduated - no sense in waiting till this June, get your classes done NOW! And, if I could put you in touch with one of my super seniors, they' tell you that's my daily mantra!

Jeff Barriault wrote:I have a better idea. Adopt a plan like they have in Finland. Let the tax money for education go with each child. If a community wants to have a public school, it must compete with other schools for the children and the funds that go along with them. The schools in Finland hate it, but the competition has led to Finland having the best educated students on the planet.

Parents get to decide where their children go, and because they are given a choice, they tend to become more involved in the system. Unlike here where unless you have enough money to send your child to private school, you have a very limited choice of schools, if any.

We've already got a loosely similar plan here in the State of Texas: charter schools. Charter Schools are publicly funded (the tax money goes with the kid) and parents have the freedom to transfer a kiddoh into a charter school if they meet the qualifications, if they have room for the kid, if they live in the service area, etc.

The City of Westlake, a DFW suburb east of the Texas Motor Speedway, for example, has established it's own charter school. Fabulous results. The citizens of the city help funding of the school with their city taxes, as well as the funding from the state. There's a waiting line for kids to get into the Westlake school system - they've got a great International Baccalaureate curriculum. Absolutely fantastic results from a quasi-public school.

A lot of charter schools are religious organizational based. Many of them are aimed at specialty populations: kids recovering from drug abuse, kids from at risk (returning dropouts, etc.).

The leg has limited the number of Charter Schools in the state, but there's legislation that would increase that increase that total.

As a public school teacher, I'm probably going against the grain of what folks think public school teachers think, but I'm 100% in favor of charter schools. I think they're great. I'd love to work in a charter school that was dedicated to STEM, for example. The charters sometimes don't hire certified teachers (that's a problem, in my mind, as certification sets a basic set of abilities), and sometimes don't pay well - a lot of charters start and find out that it's a lot more expensive to run a school than they thought, and run into financial problems, or wind up being taken over by the state when they can't pay the bills. As long as you do it right, and don't go into it looking to make a profit (there ARE companies out there trying to do exactly that), then you should be good to go.

So, if you and your community compatriots aren't seeing the type of schools you want, you can (theoretically) charter your own school. It costs a lot, and you have to have the financial backing and someone with the credentials needed to run the school. But the idea is, that you CAN have what you are looking for.

cheezit wrote:yup all for if if I dont have to waste more tax dollars. keller isd is pretty high on the tax rate

At the end of the school year, look at the National Merit Scholarships and college scholarships offered to students of Keller ISD (that info is published each spring) and you'll find that you're probably getting a pretty good deal for the taxes you're paying in Keller ISD. Sure, they've got problems, but who doesn't?

SherwoodForest wrote:This is a serious question - When families visit the Gulf Coast do reasonable parents allow their young children to venture out into the surf beyond the "safe zone" generally considered to be too shallow for bull shark predation ?

Informed parents will not.

Yet the vast majority of parents continue to patronize a public school system that harbors drug dealers, child predators, rapists, armed robbers, murderers, kidnappers, random bullies, and is staffed by employees represented by educator associations publicly at odds with our constitutional principles.

The problem is that your child is go to university, to a job, or into the military (unless you're going to put em to work on the family farm) in a world where there are drug dealers, child predators, rapists, armed robbers, murderers, kidnappers, random bullies and where there are folks in authority of all kinds that may be in disagreement with what you think is a constitutional principle. Are you going to put your child in a bubble and withdraw them from any chance of making their own way in this world?

Yes, I've had convicted and accused drug dealers in my classrooms - they weren't selling in class, and any kid that wanted to avoid them, could. Yes, I've had kids who's robbed someone, burglars, car thiefs, random bullies and valedictorians and salutatorians, sometimes in the same class. And as far as I know, I've never heard a child in one of my classrooms say that they were ruined in life by the choices someone else made... most kids make their own mistakes and some of them have to pay the piper and try to get their life back on track, and some kids never get caught. Again, the bubble question. Put your child in a bubble or guide them well at home, know that we're watching out for your kids as best possible and tell all the kids if there's something that disturbs them or threatens them to tell us asap. More than that, you'd need to be a higher power to affect.