TexasCHLforum.com

srothstein wrote:Just so you can all see the law on this:

Code of Criminal Procedure Article 18.16. PREVENTING CONSEQUENCES OF
THEFT.
Any person has a right to prevent the consequences of theft by seizing any personal property that has been stolen and bringing it, with the person suspected of committing the theft, if that person can be taken, before a magistrate for examination, or delivering the property and the person suspected of committing the theft to a peace officer for that purpose. To justify a seizure under this article, there must be reasonable ground to believe the property is stolen, and the seizure must be openly made and the proceedings had without delay.

Now for most of this discussion, the word detain has been thrown around and it is not in the penal code. But let's examine the word "detain."

Detain -1. to keep from proceeding; keep waiting; delay.
2. to keep under restraint or in custody

Part1. is what most loss prevention / employee might have the right to do in some sort of fashion, until it can be sorted out.

Part2. The authority to do that normally lands under a peace officer or LEO. No employee has that right under state law.

But anyway, according to the penal code, any person has the right to seize the property, so why is there the attempt to get physical all the time and sieze the person?? It says if that person can be taken to relevant authorities. It does not say if that person can be taken by force or restraint. So, does this need to be clarified better to employees???


P.S. I feel you, Funky monkey. The moral of the story is "DON'T BE TAKEN!!!!!" UNLESS RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

DaveT wrote: The statement about "no one will ever lay a finger on me" is almost paranoid or delusional. Lots of people in this great country of ours are very affectionate and often touch another during conversations. Folks who consider themselves to be faith based and Christian do it all the time. If a young man working in a store happens to be one of those kind of folks and touches you during a conversation, you would seriously escalate it to the next level ?

Come on now!!!!! That is nonsense. In 2007, as a former Chief of Police, you know fully, that anyone approaching you uninvited and talking nonsense and places a hand on you which is felt (force); that as a officer, is that not considered ASSAULT.???? That is the number one, easiest ways to be arrested in USA, is to just brush on an officer. SO why is it different for a civilian all of a sudden.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Comments have been made about rampant false alarms. I have walked out of stores thousands of times in my life and I can recall a false alarm on a security device only about 3 ro 4 times. If a store manager testifies in your trial (civil or criminal) that false alarms make up a very small percentage of the times they go off, then you are probably going to lose. Now, if the store does have a track record of "excessive" false alarms, then a jury could also decide that the triggering of an alarm does not constitute reasonable belief that a theft is in progress.

Chas.

If you go to "common stores", just stand in line and listen and you will hear that alarm go off at least 1 in 100 times. I think most people would agree that you are not in a store long enough that a 1000 checked out customers leave, and that alarm sings regularly. Average 30mins in a store, that is 33 people per minute checked out. Please, these don't even have 33 register opened at one time and they sure don't take 1 minute either.

But anyway, I have the solution. Was going to wait until the Patent Office opens on Tuesday, but will go ahead and release it now, claiming all copyrights and trademarks. LOL.
It is called F.A.R. False Alarm Refund. It will revolutionize the industry and save billions of dollars and increase the capture rate of thieves in stores. Basically, store should put into policy that they will REFUND the customer $5 whenever they have a false alarm.
That would cause these cashiers to check your items properly and dramatically decrease these incidents and they can take the money out of the stores profit.
I bet everyone would stop and return grinning, knowing they are about to get $5. Plus the added incentive is that some stores will have increase traffic and ultimately HAPPY CUSTOMERS. Especially, if they can't demagnetize items.

srothstein wrote: To justify a seizure under this article, there must be reasonable ground to believe the property is stolen, and the seizure must be openly made and the proceedings had without delay.
................I think the store would be in trouble if they were just checking receipts at the door (like Sam's Club), but an anti-theft alarm going off is going to be seen as reasonable by most of the people who serve on juries these days. They usually have forgotten what rights and freedom are.

Just for discussion, I think part of your defense it that these stores have PLENTY monitored surveillance cameras in the building and since NOBODY saw your stuff items in your clothing, and you stopped at the cash register and your items were scanned by an employee, then a reasonable person would think it was a false alarm from item not getting demagnetized by cashier. So, stores need to put a perimeter collar on their employees and taze them when they make this error.

Now if someone try to stroll outside the building with items and bypass the register, then I agree then there is reasonable grounds.

Well about 3 weeks ago, I went to a local mall near my house and was browsing several stores when I went into a lady's store with the wife and as I entered the door, the alarm thingy went off.
Now me and the wife looked at each other and kept walking in, and we weren't confronted because they was an employee folding close near the door and they say we were coming.
But I was waiting for someone to approach me and say something "crazy." Then I whispered to my wife that I bet it was my gun IWB. But guess what happened on the way out.....DING DONG....and I kept walking. I need a new truck anyway.

THis just reminded me of the first time this kind of thing happened. I went to another local grocery chain and I walked pass a leased out shopping area near the entrance and I guess that I was too close to the door because I heard DING DONG. I couldn't figure out why for about one minute, but was wondering if the store had "hidden gun detector." LOL.

But this has only happened twice with me so far, and I carry 24/7 EVERYWHERE without legal 30.06, no questions asked. Haven't had anyone approach me yet, so maybe I need to prepare a speech.