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LAYGO wrote:Someone at TSA got a free box of it.

I can't tell you the number of times I wished I could take home something that a passenger forfeited. I was "gifted" with a hundred rounds of 12 gauge dove loads one time, they were just rattling around loose in the golf bag he was using to carry his guns south for the season. The passenger decided on option two, forfeit the ammo, rather than take it out to his car, or put it in a suitable container. Just like all other such things they were deposited in a "secure area" for eventual disposal according to TSA regs.

I have seen so much interesting stuff go that route.

McKnife wrote:

jimlongley wrote:

McKnife wrote:Well, I locked the shotgun and wrapped the shells in brown paper bags and placed everything in a locked padded rifle case ready for check-in. - After checking the case, a nosey TSA agent saw me and DEMANDED a thorough inspection of my case and equipment. Soooooooo... I unlocked the case and he searched everything except the actual shotgun...

You were in violation of the very specific rule requiring the ammo to be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. The TSA agent was right, not nosey, and doing his job, and you were in the wrong and just lucky to get away with it.

Come on to my presentation Saturday in Mesquite and I can explain it in detail.

Right... a few things I forgot to mention was that I had all rules printed out. I called Southwest Airlines and had express permission/approval to bring the bandoleer of shells on the flight, backed up with names and badge numbers. When producing that information during the search, the cocky agents said "you didn't get TSA's permission." This was true. I thought airline approval would suffice. TSA controls everything up to security checkpoint... anything past that is all airlines.

I've flown about 6 more times with firearms since then and all have been pleasent. So, IMO the TSA agents in odessa are still nosey and unprofessional with their search and questioning.

Without trying to get into an arguement, I still dispute your description of the way you packaged the shells. You have it backwards, the airlines may control up to the checkpoint but TSA controls what goes past the checkpoint, and "loose ammunition" which is defined as noted before, does not go.

If Southwest told you that a bandoleer was OK, that's all fine and dandy, but Southwest doesn't make that determination, TSA does, and a bandoleer does not cover the primers, which means that TSA is not going to let it fly. In my presentation, and here, I will tell you that the first rule of flying with guns is to know ALL of the rules, and to print out not only the airlines' rules, but TSA's.

And "wrapped the shells in brown paper bags" whether they were in bandoliers or not (which you did not specify) does not meet the packaging requirements.

In defense of an agency that I did not particularly enjoy working for, it is TSA's job to be nosey, and to search and question without regard for your judgement. If you feel they were unprofessional, then file a complaint with the FSD, includign badge numbers of all of the TSA agents involved.

Since I left TSA I have flown out of Midland/Odessa several times, with guns, and have never had a problem.

sjfcontrol wrote:

jimlongley wrote: I have the honor of presenting "Flying with Guns" at the TSRA meeting in Mesquite on Saturday at 1:30pm. I was a TSA agent for three plus years and also traveled quite a bit with guns.

I will reveal the arcane and occult secret inner workings of the . . . Wait, that's the wrong presentation, never mind.

Where can we find out the specifics (where, how much, etc)

This is the TSRA annual meetings, my segment is 1330 to 1500 on Saturday at the Mesquite Convention Center. Details can be found at the TSRA website.

chabouk wrote:

jimlongley wrote:You were in violation of the very specific rule requiring the ammo to be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. The TSA agent was right, not nosey, and doing his job, and you were in the wrong and just lucky to get away with it.

Isn't that an FAA regulation that is up to the airlines to enforce, not TSA?

I recall that you were a TSA agent. Is TSA charged with enforcing FAA regs, or just security issues?

The ammunition in containers designed to hold ammunition regulation is a TSA regulation, although it might also be an FAA regulation also. "Loose" ammunition, defined as that not contained in a proper container, is a fire hazard and is not to be allowed in the hold of an aircraft, at least according to TSA.

In a seperate thread we had several people tell some "I had my Stupid on" tales and I am sure many more could be added, including my friend Mike who had a .22LR round in his back pocket and stuffed a pair of pliers on top of it, resulting in a muted pop and his britches lighting on fire.

The problem, as TSA sees it, is that loose ammo, which is defined as ammo not contained in a suitable container, could be inadvertantly discharged by the primer coming in contact with something hard enough. TSA, despite being a (insert unsubtle invective) Federal Agency. actually knows that a round not contained in a firearm chamber is not likely to go very far very fast or with a great deal of force, but it can and will start a fire, not desireable in the hold of an aircraft.

During TSA's early days there were almost daily problems with people carrying ammo in bandoliers (eventually declared not a suitable container) and clips (really!) and magazines. Clips and magazines were eventually declared to be OK within certain parameters.

Anyway, before I present all of my good stuff here:

sjfcontrol wrote:

jimlongley wrote:You were in violation of the very specific rule requiring the ammo to be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. The TSA agent was right, not nosey, and doing his job, and you were in the wrong and just lucky to get away with it.

Come on to my presentation Saturday in Mesquite and I can explain it in detail.

Presentation? What presentation?

I have the honor of presenting "Flying with Guns" at the TSRA meeting in Mesquite on Saturday at 1:30pm. I was a TSA agent for three plus years and also traveled quite a bit with guns.

I will reveal the arcane and occult secret inner workings of the . . . Wait, that's the wrong presentation, never mind.

McKnife wrote:Well, I locked the shotgun and wrapped the shells in brown paper bags and placed everything in a locked padded rifle case ready for check-in. - After checking the case, a nosey TSA agent saw me and DEMANDED a thorough inspection of my case and equipment. Soooooooo... I unlocked the case and he searched everything except the actual shotgun...

You were in violation of the very specific rule requiring the ammo to be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. The TSA agent was right, not nosey, and doing his job, and you were in the wrong and just lucky to get away with it.

Come on to my presentation Saturday in Mesquite and I can explain it in detail.