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by jimlongley
Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:16 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Another reason to shoot criminals
Replies: 34
Views: 4179

Re: Another reason to shoot criminals

srothstein wrote: . . . Most of the countries you mention were colonized before the Monroe Doctrine. You also conveniently ignored things like California, which was part of Mexico until the US took it. Of course, it claims to have declared independence also, but no one recognized it. Then there are big chunks of the midwest and west, like Kansas and Washington, etc. that we colonized/settled after the Monroe Doctrine.

Mention of Cuba brings forth the question of why the first battle fought in the Spanish American War was in the Phillipines, if the war was started by the blast on the Maine. And then you would have to ask yourself how we got word to the fleet to start the war there in the time between the Maine and the battle. It could be an interesting thing to look at.

But, instead of history, I was thinking we needed to renew the Monroe Doctrine now. why should we let Russia into South America through Venezuela? Let's remind them of the Monroe Doctrine and see if they really want to fight it.
Yes, actually, the Lousiana Purchase was earlier than the Monroe Doctrine, so I was probably mistaken in mentioning it, but I should also point out that it included Kansas. Washington State was acquired as part of the Oregon Territory treaty negotiated by Secretary of State James Buchanan and Britain's Ambassador to the US Richard Packenham, in 1846, but was a resolution to a long standing dispute and could hardly be considered colonialism in light of the Monroe Doctrine.

I would argue with the language that we took California, it was ceded to the US after Mexico lost the Mexican American War, it sure wasn't really invaded and colonized. If it was not for the gold rush, it might not have gotten much more interest anyway, most of the rest of the nation knew it was there, but were not much interested in going there.

Dewey received messages via telegraph and messenger, on or before May 1st, when the battle took place, more than a week having elapsed between the various declarations of war and two and a half months after the Maine blew up. Dewey had plenty of time to put himself on a war footing.
by jimlongley
Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:13 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Another reason to shoot criminals
Replies: 34
Views: 4179

Re: Another reason to shoot criminals

Stupid wrote:You are telling me that treaty signed by US (Federal) has no effect on Texas. How interesting. What's the point of signing any thing with USA who will not honor it anyway?
If that's the way you choose to take it, I guess so. Remember that the US Constitution reserves certain powers and rights for the federal government, such as regulating interstate commerce, and others go to the states and the people. The people get the right to keep and bear arms, and the states get to determine the death penalty. Until after JFK's assassination there was no Federal law against murder, which lead to an interesting debate which was never fully resolved due to Jack Ruby's killing of Lee Oswald.

The US can make treaties, but there is no real mechanism for the feds to force the individual states to go along with those treaties, unless they are under federal power, which does not include crimes at the state level. Long history of prosecutions of non-nationals in other countries shows that they are even less inclined to interfere locally based on international treaties.
Stupid wrote:I thought we were more civil and more developed. Not only have we been practically slapping everybody around the world and ordering them to do whatever we want, but also we want to drag ourselves "down" to the level of "developing" countries - oh since they tell the world court to take a hike, we will just do the same thing or worse.
Besides my own personal opinion that the "world court" has absolutely no reason to exist, I also do not believe that, granting its existence, it should be allowed to interfere in anything that does not constitute an international dispute at law, such as whether an entire nation or national government has committed "crimes against humanity" with Nazi Germany being an example - and then how would such an entity enforce its ruling? By doing what we did to Nazi Germany.

US citizens in other nations already suffer indignations well beyond the norm in the US when the are arrested, even when they are nominally innocent, trying to convince us that by not following the other countries' rules we are going to suffer awful fates is still nothing more than extortion.

Also recall that a lot of that slapping has been done at the behest of the UN, or coalitions which the US has been part of and provided most of the funding for.
Stupid wrote:Come on. Is this how a society should be built? Is this not double standard?
I don't know where building a society comes into this, are you saying you are in favor of a one world government? That's what it sounds like from my point of view. We should hold to our own standards, without regard for other nations, they always do the same for us. No "double standard" just our own, and they can have theirs.
Stupid wrote:The Monroe Doctrine was merely to tell the European to take a hike so that USA could colonize every country in America (North and South). Again, very "civilized."
Your history teachers must have been a lot different than mine, would you mind showing me just where we colonized in the Americas after the Monroe Doctrine? Louisiana was purchased, Texas, a free nation, was voluntarily annexed, Alaska was purchased. Cuba, when conquered, was given back except for one little outpost, the US Virgin Islands were acquired in a trade, the Bahamas have remained British, and the French and Spanish colonies in South America stayed the way they were until they obtained their own independence. Brevity begs the list, but there is absolutely no support for your contention.
jimlongley wrote:
As pointed out above, the ICJ does not have jurisdiction directly over Texas, they only have a treaty with the US, and all the US can do is what it did, attempt to influence Texas. The state did not violate any legal procedure, that would only occur if the treaty signatory did not allow consular access, and the US never tried to inject itself into the process until recently.

The thinly veiled threats issuing from the State Department, the UN, and various other entities, that US citizens arrested abroad will suffer repraisals in response denies the fact that US citizens have already been suffering such indignities for decades, and is nothing more than an attempt at extortion.

This is indeed about something more than simply putting a confessed and unrepentant rapist and murderer to death, it's also about whether the world gets to say how we conduct our business in our state. Imagine if France, Guatemala, or even Mexico were approached by the World Court due to urging from the US on a similar issue - they would laughingly suggest that the World Court peddle their goods elsewhere, and that would be no change from what has always transpired.

If we let them get away with this stuff, the next thing they will want is for us to outlaw guns . . . Oops, forgot, they already are insisting on that.

Maybe it's time to consider reimplementing the Monroe Doctrine.
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by jimlongley
Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:59 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Another reason to shoot criminals
Replies: 34
Views: 4179

Re: Another reason to shoot criminals

Stupid wrote:Many of you didn't consider this whole thing is more than about killing a murderer. Yes, he's convicted and sentenced to die; we are not arguing on this issue, and it's not about that.

Remember there's often a case that police find a whole bunch of drug, but unfortunately it's an illegal search and the fact of finding the dough is not admissible to the court, hence the drug dealer walks?

On one hand, when the state violates the person's right - by not following the proper legal procedure, is it still OK to proceed?
On the other hand, is it OK that other countries return such favor when a American is put into such a situation in a foreign country? Even after the ICJ rules that they must concur with the international law?
As pointed out above, the ICJ does not have jurisdiction directly over Texas, they only have a treaty with the US, and all the US can do is what it did, attempt to influence Texas. The state did not violate any legal procedure, that would only occur if the treaty signatory did not allow consular access, and the US never tried to inject itself into the process until recently.

The thinly veiled threats issuing from the State Department, the UN, and various other entities, that US citizens arrested abroad will suffer repraisals in response denies the fact that US citizens have already been suffering such indignities for decades, and is nothing more than an attempt at extortion.

This is indeed about something more than simply putting a confessed and unrepentant rapist and murderer to death, it's also about whether the world gets to say how we conduct our business in our state. Imagine if France, Guatemala, or even Mexico were approached by the World Court due to urging from the US on a similar issue - they would laughingly suggest that the World Court peddle their goods elsewhere, and that would be no change from what has always transpired.

If we let them get away with this stuff, the next thing they will want is for us to outlaw guns . . . Oops, forgot, they already are insisting on that.

Maybe it's time to consider reimplementing the Monroe Doctrine.
by jimlongley
Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:13 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Another reason to shoot criminals
Replies: 34
Views: 4179

Re: Another reason to shoot criminals

Venus Pax wrote:"Medellin's case created international controversy when the United Nations' world court determined Texas had violated the killer's rights under the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations by denying him access to the Mexican consulate."

Does the United Nations' world court have anything to say regarding the violations of the rights of those two teen girls?
My suggestion, in several letters to the media, was to let him have his consular access, and then go ahead and "get 'er done" anyway.

Looks like they might have taken me up on part of the suggestion - that scum was a waste of air.

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