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mojo84

Mxrdad wrote:
jmra wrote:
Oldgringo wrote: This has been a good one!
Yep. Keep popping the corn.
This still doesn't answer the question. Whats better? .45 acp or 9mm?

Come on, everyone knows the obvious answer to that.

mojo84

jkurtz wrote:
Teamless wrote:
mojo84 wrote:The clerk asks the zip code question, not the credit card terminal.
Simply put. WRONG
Any Academy I have gone to in the Houston, Webster, Pasadena areas. you are asked to enter the zip code ON THE CC Terminal.
I ALWAY hit "cancel" and NEVER put it in. -Why? Because I dont give my phone, email or zip UNLESS it is necessary to complete the transaction.
My local Academy also asks for the zip code on the CC terminal and often times the clerk will instruct me to enter my zip code on the terminal. For what it's worth, I just hit cancel.

mojo84 wrote:Even though some are conflating 2 different issues, do you put in your zip code when you purchase gas at a self pay gas pump when you use a credit card or do you go in and berate the clerk?
If I am not mistaken, gas pumps are not actually asking for your current zip code, rather it is looking for the zip code associated with the billing address for that card. It is usually the same, but not always. The reason for this has more to do with security by ensuring that the person using the card is authorized to do so since there is no clerk to verify ID along with the CC. When I use my debit card, it only asks for my pin.

More to the OP, you may not have been rude, but you indicated that you did cause a scene. Perception can be more important than reality. Even if you, in your opinion, were not rude, I bet many of the people that stopped to stare would think differently. In their minds, they witnessed a gun owning grown man berate (what was likely) a teenage kid. If anything, you probably reinforced the idea that ammo purchases should be vetted among those that witnessed your tantrum. Dick's has the right to ask, and you have the right to disagree with the policy, but I highly doubt your actions would make them less likely to enforce such a policy. Rather, you should have just refused to make the purchase, left the store, and addressed your concerns to someone at Dick's HQ that has the authority to influence change over such policies.

And you know that Academy's credit card processor isn't also using it for security verification? I've given Academy my zip code both ways for many years now. Haven't experienced any major negative concequences. Just being on the internet exposes people to more privacy issues than giving out a zip code.

I'll leave it here and let you folks that are dead set being rude and obnoxious is ok and productive have at it. It's been fun.

mojo84

Abraham wrote:"My loyalties lie with reasonableness."

Hhmmmm, not terribly Winston Churchillian old boy. More meek and mild.

What you may consider reasonable, others may not.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you don't get to decide what's considered reasonable for all...

As for the constant drum beat regarding the so-called yelling at the retailer is just another opinion - of yours.

The OP said he was forceful, not rude and much like I pointed out earlier, being forceful doesn't necessarily equate to being rude, but you choose to think it so. Your opinion.

I'm sure most here aren't the male equivalent of "Stepford Wives" who are so docile they wouldn't complain if their mouths were full of manure...

Please read this and tell me this is not rude.

The clerk told me (hold back your laughter please) that it was a “Federal Law” that ammunition could only me sold to US citizen of alien nationals here legally. I had already had a very long day and it was at about this this point I started to feel my temperature rise. I guess it was then that I started speaking in a rather loud drill instructor type voice because I notice everyone at all of the other checkout counters stopped what they were doing to see what the ruckus was about. I told the young sales clerk that he was insane, misinformed or stupid and that there was no such law, I went on to ask him where the heck he thought he was – California? His eyes got kind of big and he keyed his phone to page a manager. The manager arrived and said they could not process the sale without me answering the question and that it was not Federal law, but Dick’s policy. I told him that if he could not bypass that question and process the sale, there would be no purchase now or of anything in the future. He fiddled with the register for several minutes and then stated that he didn’t think it was possible to do that.

mojo84

Abraham wrote:"My loyalties lie with reasonableness."

Hhmmmm, not terribly Winston Churchillian old boy. More meek and mild.

What you may consider reasonable, others may not.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you don't get to decide what's considered reasonable for all...

As for the constant drum beat regarding the so-called yelling at the retailer is just another opinion - of yours.

The OP said he was forceful, not rude and much like I pointed out earlier, being forceful doesn't necessarily equate to being rude, but you choose to think it so. Your opinion.

I'm sure most here aren't the male equivalent of "Stepford Wives" who are so docile they wouldn't complain if their mouths were full of manure...

Reread the original post. It's obvious the OP decided to backtrack on what he posted once he was challenged on it. Not sure from where you are from but the OP outlined how he insulted the clerk. That is being rude.

mojo84

Abraham wrote:"Either way, the info does no harm. They already know more about you from you using a credit card than you realize."

Therefore, resistance is futile eh?

So whatever is asked you should answer as it's only 'reasonable' do so...

In a pigs eye...

That's absurd and ridiculous.

mojo84

Teamless wrote:
mojo84 wrote:The clerk asks the zip code question, not the credit card terminal.
Simply put. WRONG
Any Academy I have gone to in the Houston, Webster, Pasadena areas. you are asked to enter the zip code ON THE CC Terminal.
I ALWAY hit "cancel" and NEVER put it in. -Why? Because I dont give my phone, email or zip UNLESS it is necessary to complete the transaction.

I bought a basket full of goodsabout a week ago and the clerk asked me. I told him and he put entered it. Either way, the info does no harm. They already know more about you from you using a credit card than you realize.

So you do not use a credit card at a self-pay gas pump?

Is any of this justification for berating a clerk in front over other people in the store?

mojo84

Teamless wrote:
mojo84 wrote:
Teamless wrote:
mojo84 wrote:
Then why was it the credit card terminal that asked the question?
Credit card terminals are just an extension of the Point of Purchase (POP) machine (cash register for us old folks).
Its a computer, programmed by Dicks.

Just like at Academy where it asks for Zip Code, I always hit cancel. Yet I still process my credit card through it.
Its not the CC company asking for my Zip, its Academy trying to get information about their clients.
No it's not. Ignorance of something doesn't make it so. I'm old also but at least I try to understand.

Academy uses that info to determine where to build future stores. It could actually benefit you if you have to drive a while to get to the Academy. Nothing nefarious going on with this info.
I didnt say Academy is doing anything nefarious.Just that they are using the CREDIT CARD TERMINAL for their own information.
Just answering your comment above about why is the credit card terminal asking the question.
If you agree that ACADEMY is using the CC terminal for their INTERNAL use, how can you even say DICKS did not use the CC Terminal for their own use, and it must be the CC Company?
You dont need to agree, but after many years in retail, I understand the systems pretty darn well.

I question the bolded statement. The clerk asks the zip code question at Academy, not the credit card terminal. The POS terminal/register is a completely different system than the credit card terminal. They are operated by two different companies even though they are connected to one another.

When Academy first started asking the question years ago, they had an agreement with the credit card processor to obtain that information to help them decide where to build future stores. They stopped doing that way some time ago and just had the clerk ask and put it in the register at the time the transaction was rung up.

I had similar concerns years ago but I approached it differently than the OP. I finished my transaction and then asked for a manager. I asked him why they requested the info. He explanined it to me.

Even though some are conflating 2 different issues, do you put in your zip code when you purchase gas at a self pay gas pump when you use a credit card or do you go in and berate the clerk?

mojo84

Abraham wrote:cyphertext,

The OP cleared that up.

He said he wasn't rude, but forceful.

There's a difference.

I think the vast majority of us on this forum aren't Casper Milquetoast's either. We aren't the meek.
We aren't not rude either.

There's a difference.

Standing up for yourself is too much for some, I get it...

Some of us simply won't tolerate being mistreated in any manner, shape or form. We won't simply over, but if you find doing so best suits you, ok...

The passive aggressive insults are uncalled for. Yelling and being forceful, where everyone within earshot stops what they are doing to listen, to someone that has no authority to change policy of their or another company is rude.

mojo84

Abraham wrote:"Academy uses that info to determine where to build future stores. It could actually benefit you if you have to drive a while to get to the Academy"

Yes, yes of course, we have an obligation to give out our personal information because, it may benefit me in the future. Yeah, yeah, why didn't I think of that? What an Epiphany!

Now, I have a bridge to sell you located in Brooklyn...

Something tells me certain loyalties with some lie with business rather than the individual.

There is no "obligation" to give Academy your zip code. It's disengenuous to continue to conflate the two issues.

My loyalties lie with reasonableness. I also understand what effects government overreach causes through their massive bureaucracy. I, as an insurance agent, have to be on the lookout for "red flags" for money laundering, fraud, illegal immigration, drug dealing etc. If I do not take prudent steps, which involves asking certain questions, I can lose my license, which is my livelihood and face criminal penalties. That is a fact of life whether you understand or like it or not.

The question that was asked by the merchant services company was not near as intrusive as some want to make it out to be. Regardless, berating and yelling at a low wage clerk does more harm than good.

mojo84

Teamless wrote:
mojo84 wrote:
Then why was it the credit card terminal that asked the question?
Credit card terminals are just an extension of the Point of Purchase (POP) machine (cash register for us old folks).
Its a computer, programmed by Dicks.

Just like at Academy where it asks for Zip Code, I always hit cancel. Yet I still process my credit card through it.
Its not the CC company asking for my Zip, its Academy trying to get information about their clients.

No it's not. Ignorance of something doesn't make it so. I'm old also but at least I try to understand.

Academy uses that info to determine where to build future stores. It could actually benefit you if you have to drive a while to get to the Academy. Nothing nefarious going on with this info.

mojo84

rotor wrote:Is it the credit card company that is asking or is it Dick's? I have shopped at stores and bought ammo where the clerk was reminded by the cash register to make sure I am old enough (yes) and that is probably store policy to protect them just like selling alcohol.
I doubt this is the credit card company as they would not be the ones liable for problems if Dick's sold something that a non-citizen was not allowed to purchase. Probable Dick's philosophy to cover their butt. Surprised they didn't ask if you are a felon.
I agree with AndyC though and that is to stay away from Dick's. The only thing they could be to be more anti-gun is to 30.06/30.07.

Then why was it the credit card terminal that asked the question?

mojo84

If you have any interest in trying to understand you can read this. https://oversight.house.gov/report/repo ... -business/

mojo84

Abraham wrote:There are lots of options out there.

One would be to not to give my business to Dicks, especially given I've never been asked this obnoxious question by any other ammo seller and my original list isn't complete with just Walmart, Cabelas, and SGA. It also includes Academy, Marburgers, and many other retailers that sell ammo.

Blaming the credit card or bank they (Dicks) do business with reminds of businesses who claim they HAD to put up a 30.06 sign due to their insurance company.

Yeah, sure...

When businesses start in with ye olde "it's really not me asking, it's 'fill in the blank' with blaming some other entity" it's not us, really, it's not us asking, we wouldn't ever ask such a question, but ya know, it's federal law, doncha know, blah, blah, blah, I just shake my head and go elsewhere with my greenbacks...

Nice try but it's obvious you have no clue how the merchant services systems work. The OP even said in the original post it was the credit card terminal that asked the question. Doubling down on a position without trying to understand says a lot. No one has been able to substantiate the insurance company claims. The credit card processor has been substatiated in the initial post and subsequent info I've provided.

At least try to understand and direct your ire at the proper target. Going off on a clerk shows very little self control and discernment. When you pay with cash, the transaction is between you and the merchant. When you pay with a credit or debit card, your transaction becomes between you and the merchant services company and the merchant.

I bet if one were to pay cash or check for ammo at Dick's that question would not be asked.

mojo84

They may use a different credit card processor or bank. There are lots of options of each out there. Here's a link to give you an idea of the many options.
http://www.topcreditcardprocessorsratings.com

Banking and credit card processors aka merchant services are highly regulated. Some companies are more sensitive to government regulations and scrutiny than others.

Regardless, the hourly clerk at the register has ZERO input and should not be the subject of such wrath as these decisions are made miles above his pay grade.

mojo84

Abraham wrote:TEX,

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Their obnoxious question is absolutely out of line.

If more customers acted like you did when asked such questions those particular questions would stop...

When it's really not that big a deal, sure, I'll go along to get along and keep quiet, but their is a line that when crossed I'll forcefully speak up. I'm glad you did.

Ask for my zip code, ask for my phone number, I may or not give it to you, but I won't be all that annoyed. I won't like it, but hey, you Mr Businessman can ask without me being rancorous.

Ask if I'm an illegal alien, whoa, you just drew the line I won't willingly cross. You Mr. Businessman don't get to go there. I see a question like that as a function of government, (see form 4473 for similar questions) but not a business. A business employee acting alike a pseudo-government functionary isn't something I'll respond well to or willingly...

It isn't rude to stand up for yourself when intrusive questions that a business has no right to ask or when challenged then ignorantly or deliberately profess the questions are a matter of law when they aren't is way, way out line.

The text of the law that you say doesn't exist is actually quoted in this thread. I addition, it wasn't Dick's that asked the question.

I get the impression some of you are the types that would go off on an airline gate attendant because of weather delays.

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