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Dragonfighter wrote:
Added in Edit:

"...that's just nerves."

I used to work rattle snake round ups and do "stunts", in retrospect it was brutal and stupid. In one day following the close of a roundup, came a killing day wherein thousands of the snakes bought during the roundup were decapitated, skinned, gutted and the various components used or eaten for myriad applications. To an animal, the heads would watch and open there mouths trying to bite anyone who got close for quite a while after being separated from their bodies. Most of the snake's bodies would pull up into a striking position whilst rattling to beat the band. One such headless body turned and struck a guy who was walking behind it, I think he wet his britches. I took four large skinned and gutted snakes home to cook that night (hours later and after being in a cooler) and started to brine them in the kitchen sink. We were watching TV when dad looked into the kitchen and casually remarked, "Dinner's leaving." All four of the meat and bone assemblages were pushing out of the sink as if to escape the salty water. Creeeeepy.

That is easily the most disturbing thing that I have ever heard in my whole life. Hearing this story just set me back a month in my self-administered snake phobia treatment.

jbarn wrote:What would you shoot said snake with? How close would you have to get to shoot said snake?

This should answer both of your questions:

jbarn wrote:Would you agree that shooting at a snake in a public park, on a hard surface, poses a significant risk for others?

Yes.

jbarn wrote:To what law are you referring that requires a "reasonable fear of bodily injury" before you can shoot?

Penal Code 42.01(e): "It is a defense to prosecution ... that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code."

jbarn wrote:The self defense laws we think about that allow us to use deadly force to protect ourselves from people does not apply to animals. They allow deadly force to be used against ANOTHER to prevent the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force, not "bodily injury" . However, with a snake that point is moot. The only justification I see for using deadly force against non-humans is PC 9.22 that I posted above.

See above - I am not referencing the laws regarding self defense from two-legged creatures.

jbarn wrote:The issue with 9.22, at least for me, is it only covers "immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm". A snake sunning on the concrete is not imminent harm.

Again, the law requires a reasonable fear of bodily injury. I don't think anyone (well except for a few phobics) is saying that we want free reign to shoot any snake in sight - just in those situations, whatever they may be, where the snake could reasonably cause bodily injury. Those situations could very well be rare, but certainly not as rare as coming face-to-face with a lion or gorilla. I think the law should allow for these situations.

jbarn wrote:I just cannot imagine shooting at a snake in a public place, especially if the public is nearby. Hope this helps some....

I can imagine it. Suppose you left your 2 year old in the kiddie swings and went to chase one of your other kids. You come back and a rattler is coiled near the swing, agitated, and within striking distance, but far enough away to dispatch. Not saying I would shoot in this situation (might make it worse), but it might become necessary. Or say you are playing soccer at some open land in your neighborhood and one of your kids gets bit and a snake of unknown species is slithering away. If it could be shot safely to give the emergency room a clue of what it was, I think that might be wise (granted you would have to be pretty close to have a prayer of hitting it). I just see the chance of encountering a dangerous situation with a snake being more likely than encountering a similar situation with the listed animals.

jbarn wrote:

carlson1 wrote:I pray and pray if never happens, but when and if I have a meeting with a snake in public he will be dispatched no matter what the cost. I have an immediate fear of any kind of snake.

I do too. lol A few years ago I was walking with my family from a parking lot to the Texas State Aquarium in Corpus. I stepped off the curb onto the street to cross and right over a HUGE snake. Some dude there picked it up and carried it off. I have no idea what type of snake it was, but to heck with shooting it. I wanted grenades and fire.

I agree (though I would only use grenades to distract it until I could bring in heavy ordnance). I was running over to the neighbors last year and jumped over the curb only to see a snake below me while in mid flight. It is amazing how a phobia can allow you to defy laws of physics, such as gravity - I am pretty sure by flapping my arms I was able to fly about 15 feet before touching down.

Jaguar wrote:Serval is on the list as well its hybrids. I would like to have a Savannah, a hybrid of Serval and domestic cat. Seems they are good domestic cats, although larger than your typical house cat. After paying hundredds, if not thousands, for one, I would be upset were someone to shoot it.

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Nice cat. I can't imagine being afraid of bodily injury from one of those hybrids.

SewTexas wrote:OK, BUT, it was pointed out in another thread that firing a gun in town is illegal. so I think what he's getting at is that such leg. would be a protection for that (at least that's my assumption)? Sure firing the gun in town, on your own property, to kill said snake, in order to protect your ankle biter dog, or your 2 year old, is understandable and defensible, but seems like it should be legal.

One bit of clarification, the law I cited only protects from bodily injury to a person.

jbarn wrote:

AlaskanInTexas wrote:

jbarn wrote:Since the law you reference list public place, I am wondering what type of public place you imagine you would need to shoot a snake?

I don't know - probably the same public places where I would have to shoot a lion or tiger?

For example? This concerns you enough that you desire legislation, so do you have a general idea where this could be an issue?

A park? Warming itself under my car? Blocking my path with no other course of retreat? I don't have a specific place envisioned.

jbarn wrote:A snake slithering along down the sidewalk wants to avoid you. Unless you step right on it or otherwise jack with it, it is highly unlikely to strike you. Even then, with antivenom it is highly unlikely to be deadly. The risk of a missed shot injuring someone in a public place is a huge issue.

I agree that a venomous snake would probably avoid you; I don't see a need to shoot one just out for a casual slither (though it is toast if it tries to take up residence in the yard where my little kids play), and that would probably be illegal even if snakes were on the list. As to whether they are deadly, the law requires you to have a "reasonable fear of bodily injury" before you can shoot. I think being bitten by a snake, deadly or not, qualifies as bodily injury. Also, it would be a lot easier to get the proper anti-venom for you or the bitten person, if you could kill the snake for identification.

jbarn wrote:Since the law you reference list public place, I am wondering what type of public place you imagine you would need to shoot a snake?

I don't know - probably the same public places where I would have to shoot a lion or tiger?

It is a misdemeanor to shoot a firearm in a public place (except gun ranges) - Penal Code 42.01(a)(7).

There is an exception if the shooter "had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code."

Section 822.101 lists the following as dangerous animals: lion, tiger, ocelot, cougar, leopard, cheetah, jaguar, bobcat, lynx, serval, caracal, hyena, bear, coyote, jackal, baboon, chimpanzee, orangutan, gorilla, or any hybrid of the foregoing.

Noticeably missing from the list is venomous snakes. I know we have some ophiophilists among us who don't think this will ever be necessary, but I would sure support some legislation this next session that would protect me from prosecution should I find myself in a situation where I need to dispatch a venomous snake in a public place. I think that is a much more likely scenario than encountering a gorilla or tiger.