What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disease?

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#46

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rdcrags wrote:I think some of you and other experts are making losing weight far too complicated. An excerpt from one of my essays:

The rest of us are on our own. Engineers understand the concept of calories in and work out. We are able to compare our bodies with manmade machines where such things are calculated routinely. We even know about storing excess energy input into batteries when the intake is greater than the output. In our bodies, the receptacle of that surplus energy is called “fat.” Yet, some engineers still eat too much and/or exercise too little. The basic unit of expending energy is the foot-pound. It means lifting one pound against the force of gravity a distance of one foot. The foot-pound is convertible to other units, including calories and Btu’s. If you pump iron by lifting a weight of 100 pounds a distance of one foot, and do it ten times, doing so is equivalent to eating food containing 650 calories, equivalent to a typical dinner. The latest statistic that I heard is, if you eat one M&M, you need to walk 3 blocks to burn the equivalent number of calories."
The problem with this, engineering POV (and I subscribed to it until recently, most of my adult life), is that it doesn't explain why a person is eating more calories then they need. Having some stored body fat is a survival strategy. But there is diminishing returns from having too much fat when it comes to survival in a hunter/gatherer world. As the saying goes you only need to be faster then the slowest (overweight) person in the tribe if a bear is after you.

there ought to be a feedback loop that regulates the accumulation of body fat. Leptin is the hormone that tells the brain the body has enough fat stores. But excess insulin competes with leptin in the brain. Which is probably why people who cut out the carbs find that their appetite goes down until their weight normalizes.

Keeping with the mechanical paradigm, the problem with the simple calories-in, calories-out is that the body is not a simple desktop lab experiment. It's a complex biochemical factory with feedback loops.

I posted links to Gary Taubes (a physicist-science journalist) and to Dr Peter Attia (an engineer turned medical doctor). Both take issue with the calories-in, calories-out paradigm.

Peter Attia:
I'm not going to quote the entire article. Taubes gives the same logic
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/revi ... of-obesity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Below is the First Law in its simplest form. It states that energy cannot be created or destroyed – that is, the change in energy of a system (blue term) is equal to the energy entering the system (red term) less the energy exiting the system (green term). To make this specific to our question, let me state it this way: the change in fat mass of a person is equal to the difference between the energy consumed and the energy expended.

Image

No one disagrees with this point (except maybe folks who think the world is flat or that the sun rotates around the earth). Here is where the trouble starts…

Most obesity “experts” assume (erroneously) that the big equal sign between the blue and red terms implies a direction of causality. In other words, they assume that an increase in fat mass (the blue side gets bigger), was CAUSED by the red number being bigger than the green number.

Image

To reiterate, I am not for a moment suggesting that energy balance or thermodynamics are being violated. I’m saying they do not tell you WHY our bodies choose to accumulate fat instead of burn it. Think about the examples I give in the video interview in response to the question, why we get fat (http://eatingacademy.com/weight-loss/wh ... -fat-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)? The growing child is consuming more energy than he is expending (which allows him to grow), but this is not the CAUSE of his growth, it’s the RESULT of his growth. The pregnant woman isn’t gaining fat during the pregnancy BECAUSE she is eating more energy than she’s expending. She’s creating a positive energy balance BECAUSE her hormones are driving her to create this energy balance so she can support the fetus.

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#47

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rdcrags, as and engineer, I think you'll appreciate the technical sophistication Peter Attia put himself through in this self-experiment " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[video][/video]

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#48

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I admit that something in the brain causes the individual to lack the will to eat less or exert more. It's that simple, in my view, except for the 5% with medical conditions as described.
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#49

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Interesting Ted Talk about sugar. He had my interest until the end when he went of on needing government intervention. Your thoughts on his work?

[video][/video]
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#50

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mojo84 wrote:Interesting Ted Talk about sugar. He had my interest until the end when he went of on needing government intervention. Your thoughts on his work?

[video][/video]
Government, with it's dietary guidelines and promotion of starch-based grain consumption, is the reason for the health issues now. What the public needs is correct information to make appropriate food choices. A lot of them won't no mater how smart they are. I have a friend with multiple PhDs. The company his wife works for is fortune 500 and it wanted to promote her to VP of one of its divisions. She declined because her and her husband wanted to simply their life to small town. But the company recently sent her to China for 3 weeks on business. Point is, these people are intelligent and very capable of reading the latest dietary studies....yet they make poor food choices. I've seen them at the grocery store and what they buy. He weights around 500lb. She's over weight....and so are their grad school kids. They can afford and have access to better choices.

I do agree with Lustig on this point: it can suck having HFCS in 80% of the grocery products sold. It limits choice if that's your goal. Labeling and ingredient labeling can be a pain to decipher, too. For example, on a whim I bought Primal Blueprint's Avocado Mayo. It turned out to be pretty good and my son, who eats a lot of it, insisted on my buying more. My wife (and daughter) who doesn't like reading ingredients balked and bought Kraft Avocado Mayo. Same thing, right? Nope, It's made with a lot of Canola oil, which is high in Omega 6. So what's the big deal, being a little annal? With everything else we eat westerner diets are too high in Omega 6. Keeping O6 ratios down is about as difficult as keeping HFCS down.

The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Abstract

Several sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of approximately 1 whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1-16.7/1. Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a low omega-6/omega-3 ratio) exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2-3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. These studies indicate that the optimal ratio may vary with the disease under consideration. This is consistent with the fact that chronic diseases are multigenic and multifactorial. Therefore, it is quite possible that the therapeutic dose of omega-3 fatty acids will depend on the degree of severity of disease resulting from the genetic predisposition. A lower ratio of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids is more desirable in reducing the risk of many of the chronic diseases of high prevalence in Western societies, as well as in the developing countries, that are being exported to the rest of the world.
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#51

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It is harder than ever sorting through all the opinions and info. Seems every one has studies to support their opinions. I don't think it's just people not making the right choices.

Here's an example.

http://www.m.webmd.com/diet/features/omega-fatty-acids" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's one that promotes eating starch.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another one promoting plant based.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#52

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Sugar!
I like to keep this handy... for close encounters.

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#53

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harrycallahan wrote:Sugar!
Look at any packaged food's nutritional information at the sugar listing. It will show the sugar in the product such as 12g. Then look where the % daily allowance column is for every other item and notice there is nothing there for sugar. The sugar industry has a huge lobby and they don't want you to know that you are getting %150 or %200 of your daily recommended amount of sugar in one single snack.

All of the federal agencies are bought and paid for by the food industry. The message they want the .gov to tell you is that you are fat because you don't exercise enough. They don't want you to focus on what you eat or taking control of your diet.

The fact is there is no way to exercise your way out of eating too much sugar. A very had (20mph) bike ride might burn 600 calories. If you drink a sports drink and an energy bar, you're replaced that and you'll still reward yourself with more food because you worked out. You can't do that.

Eating less, especially less sugar dense foods, is how you lose weight.
Exercising more is how you get stronger and healthier.

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#54

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android wrote:
harrycallahan wrote:Sugar!
Look at any packaged food's nutritional information at the sugar listing. It will show the sugar in the product such as 12g. Then look where the % daily allowance column is for every other item and notice there is nothing there for sugar. The sugar industry has a huge lobby and they don't want you to know that you are getting %150 or %200 of your daily recommended amount of sugar in one single snack.

All of the federal agencies are bought and paid for by the food industry. The message they want the .gov to tell you is that you are fat because you don't exercise enough. They don't want you to focus on what you eat or taking control of your diet.

The fact is there is no way to exercise your way out of eating too much sugar. A very had (20mph) bike ride might burn 600 calories. If you drink a sports drink and an energy bar, you're replaced that and you'll still reward yourself with more food because you worked out. You can't do that.

Eating less, especially less sugar dense foods, is how you lose weight.
Exercising more is how you get stronger and healthier.
Yep. If a person burned 100 calories per mile walking they have to walk 700 miles to equal the calories in 20lb of fat.
(3500/100) x 20 = 700

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#55

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You can say whatever you want to about sugar. I think it's that mixed with other things. Lack of exercise, people get in their cars to get the mail, even if it's less than 200 yards away. How many kids are outside playing tag, kick the can, hiding-go-seak, instead of playing video games. People eating to much for the amount of exercise they do. People like buffets because they can eat their money's worth. They don't even know what a portion is, or what the three food groups are.

Then there are more people alive today with medical problems that cause weight gain than there were 60, 80 years ago.

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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#56

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Who is Prof. Tim Noakes? Bio, FamousScientists.org: http://www.famousscientists.org/tim-noakes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[video][/video]


[video][/video]
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#57

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There are a lot of experts out there promoting different diets based on "science". Sure is hard to sort through them to determine which is right or best.
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

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mojo84 wrote:There are a lot of experts out there promoting different diets based on "science". Sure is hard to sort through them to determine which is right or best.
Noakes has been doing university research on endurance athlete. His book The Lore Of Running has been called the been called the bible of endurance training, which promoted card loading. He developed the original GU that marathoners use.

Noakes is internationally recognized for his 40 years of research. Today, he says what he wrote in The Lore of Running as wrong and he apologizes for that in his lectures. And he no longer promotes the use of GUs.

Two things: 1 is he's shooting himself in the financial buy no longer recommending his own products. 2 the hallmark of o good scientist is always be skeptical of your own beliefs and be willing to say they are wrong when new research better explains what's going on. Noakes completely reversed his career long beliefs about carbs and fats and they're relation to health
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#59

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I understand what you are saying. I also am not saying he is doing what I am about to say but the thought did cross my mind. Think about it, he has made millions doing research and selling books saying to carb load. Now, he could be doubling up by refuting his former findings and selling new better diet books to the same people he sold the previous ones to. One could say he is making even more off the same people rather than shooting himself in the financial foot.

Again, I am not saying this is what he is doing. I am saying, it's hard to sort through all the claims made by experts that claim to have all this research and experience behind them.

One guy says eat carbs. Next guy says eat no or few carbs.
One guy says don't eat fat. Next guys says eat fat.
Some say eat vegetables and fruits. Next guy say less fruits and vegetables.
Some say no dairy while others say it's a good source of protein and other nutrients..
Some say juicing is the answer while others say it ruins the fiber and isn't that beneficial.
Some say eat like cavemen because our bodies haven't evolved. Others say our bodies have evolved so cavemen food is bad.
Some say cook food while others say few is the what to go.

They all claim to have science, research and experience on their side. I am working towards a whole food diet and trying my best to stay away from prepackaged processed foods, flours and sugar. However, I don't think that is the only way and the way for everyone.
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Re: What's causing American obesity and cardiovascular disea

#60

Post by Abraham »

Back when American was primarily agrarian obesity wasn't a problem.

Why?

Vigorous exercise in the form of hard work with a meat and potatoes diet.

One can design all sorts of diets, but if you're body/metabolism is within normal parameters and you exercise vigorously, you will not be obese.

Pretty simple.
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