Officer body-cam footage Palestine

[RoyGBiv]

The suspect pulled a BB gun. Sgt Green fired 12 rapid shots from a Glock 22 (very snappy round). He is an excellent shot, but you just carry what the department gives you. I am assuming the suspect knew he had a BB gun so this he must have wanted to die.

I only count nine, and then officer Griffin fires three.

Griffin seemed a little late to the party.

She grabbed her tazer first. If you watch closely you can see that happen at 0:50 in the "Officer Griffin" video in the OP.
Hence my comments in post #2.

[jimlongley]

The suspect pulled a BB gun. Sgt Green fired 12 rapid shots from a Glock 22 (very snappy round). He is an excellent shot, but you just carry what the department gives you. I am assuming the suspect knew he had a BB gun so this he must have wanted to die.

I only count nine, and then officer Griffin fires three.

Griffin seemed a little late to the party.

She grabbed her tazer first. If you watch closely you can see that happen at 0:50 in the "Officer Griffin" video in the OP.
Hence my comments in post #2.

And I'm thinking that the video might not be a good thing for her. She didn't even open fire until he was down and the gun no longer in his hand.

[Vol Texan]

Wow, in looking at these videos again, it appears that Officer Green didn't just do a good job...he did an OUTSTANDING job of keeping himself and his partner alive. I don't care if we found out a few days later that it was a BB gun - he was not afforded the time to make that determination. I thought his speed, control, and shot placement were well above par. I would only hope that I could do the same if the situation presented itself.

I even liked the part where he saw the danger on that last table, and moved the silverware off to the side and watched until the suspect had walked past that table.

Sure, it could be said that Officer Griffin was a bit late to the party putting her rounds downrange, but that's Monday-morning quarterbacking (while watching the video in slo-mo and stop-action about 10 times over and over). Put it in real-time, and I'm not going to fault her. Perhaps her delay MIGHT have cost a life (hers or her partner's) IF (a) the BG's gun had been real, and IF(b) Officer Green were not a direct descendant of Speedy Gonzales, but neither of those if's manifested themselves.

On full reflection, if there were anything that I'd have done differently, I would have cuffed him inside the bathroom - before bringing him through the restaurant full of people, before allowing him into the open where he has more freedom of movement, and before he has had the time to formulate a plan of action. That being said, I don't know the totality of the situation - so I don't know if restraining was warranted or not - so my perspective is worth about as much as the BBs in the gun that he pulled.

Thank God that the good guys prevailed in this situation, both from a safety and a legal perspective.

[VMI77]

I wonder about escorting the guy out of the restaurant while one officer is in front of the guy with his back turned? Seems to me they both should have been behind the guy....even if they'd searched him, but especially since they hadn't. What if he'd pulled the gun inside the restaurant? Sgt. Green does push a knife out of the way as he passes a table but if the guy had rushed him from behind, with or without a weapon, he'd have been in his partner's line of fire. Shouldn't they have searched him in the restroom before escorting him out of the restaurant? Sgt. Green tells the guy he's a suspect in a theft case...isn't that enough to justify a pat down?

The suspect is clearly "off" from the very start with a smirk on his face almost the entire time. From the look on his face as he draws the gun he is determined so he is either delusional about the expected result or has decided to to die. His expression, his demeanor, his words, his attitude, and his behavior all seem to convey a sense of inevitability, like he decided he was going to do what he did when he complied with the order to head outside. He wanted to die this way.

[Abraham]

I'd like to know: Caliber / Model of gun / Type of Ammo / Shot placement on bg's body.

I also wonder if the guy was committing suicide by cop or just panicked and for some dumb reason drew his BB pistol...

[Abraham]

Whoops!

I reread the first page and saw Glock 22.

Hey, I'm old and bent...

[Javier730]

Wow, in looking at these videos again, it appears that Officer Green didn't just do a good job...he did an OUTSTANDING job of keeping himself and his partner alive. I don't care if we found out a few days later that it was a BB gun - he was not afforded the time to make that determination. I thought his speed, control, and shot placement were well above par. I would only hope that I could do the same if the situation presented itself.

I even liked the part where he saw the danger on that last table, and moved the silverware off to the side and watched until the suspect had walked past that table.

Sure, it could be said that Officer Griffin was a bit late to the party putting her rounds downrange, but that's Monday-morning quarterbacking (while watching the video in slo-mo and stop-action about 10 times over and over). Put it in real-time, and I'm not going to fault her. Perhaps her delay MIGHT have cost a life (hers or her partner's) IF (a) the BG's gun had been real, and IF(b) Officer Green were not a direct descendant of Speedy Gonzales, but neither of those if's manifested themselves.

On full reflection, if there were anything that I'd have done differently, I would have cuffed him inside the bathroom - before bringing him through the restaurant full of people, before allowing him into the open where he has more freedom of movement, and before he has had the time to formulate a plan of action. That being said, I don't know the totality of the situation - so I don't know if restraining was warranted or not - so my perspective is worth about as much as the BBs in the gun that he pulled.

Thank God that the good guys prevailed in this situation, both from a safety and a legal perspective.

[safety1]

WOW!!!

[ShootDontTalk]

I'd like to know: Caliber / Model of gun / Type of Ammo / Shot placement on bg's body.

I also wonder if the guy was committing suicide by cop or just panicked and for some dumb reason drew his BB pistol...

I think it is far more important to observe the BG's body position. That is one of the primary reasons the FBI specified service ammunition should penetrate at least 12" and not more than 18" in a standardized test. Consequently everyone who carries a weapon for self defense should know the performance (or lack thereof) of the rounds they carry.

I would almost bet the farm that both officers were carrying either Gold Dots or Federal HST.

I think I would have restrained him and then frisked before moving him while he was in a confined area. But then I wasn't there, so my hat is off to the officers involved. Good job well done.

[Abraham]

SDT,

In response to my post you stated: "I think it is far more important to observe the BG's body position."

That sounds a bit pompous, but O.K....

My post has nothing to do with what's "important" - it has to do with personal curiosity.

[Jim Beaux]

I am glad that the BG was the one shot and not anyone else. But Dang It!!!! 13 Rounds? That officer better spend some time at the range. They all appeared to be combat effective shot placement, but he had no control at all of the recoil. That could have gone bad quickly.

I disagree.

This was a usual everyday task that would have caught many off guard. (I think that was the case with Griffin)

In any incident there is always a "lessons learned", but I was very impressed with Green's fast & decisive response. His gun did buck a little the first 2-3 rounds but he settled it down quickly. (This could be attributed to the urgency of the situation.)

Im not a LEO and not qualified to critique the reason Green walked in front of the BG, but I recognize the potential of the BG walking in front, grabbing a knife, taking a hostage, or dumping a table in the walk way and running.

This video will be featured hundreds of times in future training classes.

Carlson, please convey my respect to Green.

[Javier730]

Im glad the shooting took place outside and not inside the restaurant. It could of been much worse.

[VMI77]

Im not a LEO and not qualified to critique the reason Green walked in front of the BG, but I recognize the potential of the BG walking in front, grabbing a knife, taking a hostage, or dumping a table in the walk way and running.

Those are also possibilities and maybe that was the best tactic. However, it seems like if that's the reasoning the suspect should have been searched in the restroom and possibly cuffed. I'm just curious about how they're trained to escort a suspect in that situation. Also, while Sgt. Green pushed the knife aside it was still within reach and could have been grabbed and used on the following officer with the lead officer losing time reacting and turning around. I'm not sure which procedure conveys the best tactical advantage. It would seem that the safest procedure would be searching and cuffing the suspect before leading him out of the restaurant but I think there are other considerations in those circumstances too if the suspect isn't known or felt to be dangerous.

[ShootDontTalk]

SDT,

In response to my post you stated: "I think it is far more important to observe the BG's body position."

That sounds a bit pompous, but O.K....

My post has nothing to do with what's "important" - it has to do with personal curiosity.

If the truth sounds pompous to you...I apologize, nothing personal intended. I was simply pointing out the most important question: what ammunition was used?

[carlson1]

I would almost bet the farm that both officers were carrying either Gold Dots or Federal HST.

You lost the farm. They carry Winchester Ranger.