Shooting at Twin Peaks in Waco

[treadlightly]

You know, I think I know how to prevent more violence. The problem is gangs bickering over who owns Texas, right?

How 'bout we issue every DPS trooper a vest. Top rocker, 'DPS'. Main patch, the state seal. Bottom rocker? Of course, TEXAS.

I figure that would answer the question, and with the way group affiliation begats good times, the highways will be friendlier to boot.

What do you think?

[mojo84]

Yes I am very aware of that.

You do realize that the same people on this forum that preach "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that are jumping on the FRY EM ALL wagon? The same ones that scream the MSM is liberal and full of it are not willing to accept that some of these guys are GREAT PEOPLE....but because they belong to a Motorcycle Club they must be criminals....

I happen to know (as I mentioned) several of the Cossacks and though they may get rowdy, they are far from criminals.

Yeah...they did put the TEXAS rocker on their vest and in doing so kicked dirt in the face of the other club ..... knowing it will cause issues. But they are willing to stand up for themselves and not be bullied.

No one has said "fry em all". They are all suspects in a a violent crime that endangered many and have been arrested pending the investigation. Do you want the cops to let them all go?

Just because you claim to know a couple of them doesn't make them good guys. Maybe this is another example how important discretion and discernment in choosing friends is.

Let them all go? That's a strawman. No one has suggested letting them "all" go. Arresting everyone present, without evidence of committing a crime, and assessing a $1 million bond, doesn't meet Constitutional standards. Mass arrests and collective punishment are features of totalitarian police states, not Constitutional Republics (not that this is any longer a Constitutional Republic). The system isn't supposed to exist to make police work easy, it's supposed to exist to ensure liberty and individual rights.

Do you really think there are going to be trials for all 170 arrested? Do you think that the majority of those arrested will even be charged with a crime? If the police think you could have committed a crime because you happen to be around where a crime is committed, should they be able to arrest and imprison you until they can collect enough evidence to decide to try you or let you go, or should they have to have enough evidence to have probable cause for an arrest in the first place? It appears rather obvious that the police didn't know who all did what so they just arrested everyone intending to sort it out later.

Not a straw man at all. Who do you think they should hold and who do you think they should let go at this point? Are they not all suspects until they can investigate further? Who would you have arrested?

By the way, they didn't arrest everyone present. Only the known biker gang members were arrested. Who's playing the straw man card now?

[PBR]

Well I have known and still know many Bandidos. To group them all into "they are bad" group is not right. Almost like saying NFL and NBA are thug gang members. There are some very good folks along with some very bad folks also. I don't know as I haven't talked to any of them on the matter but to me the whole ordeal just has a bad vibe and fishy smell to it, almost as if a set up deal. We all know media reports get most things wrong all the time and rush to the story lines. So it could be months before really know most true facts, if true then cause of the way things get spun. I still think there is way more to the story then is getting aired out.

[mojo84]

Would you guys be saying the same things about some of them being good guys if it was the Crips and Bloods that shot it out in a busy shopping center?

[nightmare69]

Well I have known and still know many Bandidos. To group them all into "they are bad" group is not right. Almost like saying NFL and NBA are thug gang members. There are some very good folks along with some very bad folks also. I don't know as I haven't talked to any of them on the matter but to me the whole ordeal just has a bad vibe and fishy smell to it, almost as if a set up deal. We all know media reports get most things wrong all the time and rush to the story lines. So it could be months before really know most true facts, if true then cause of the way things get spun. I still think there is way more to the story then is getting aired out.

The NBA and NFL does not identify themselves as a outlaw club so your comparison is moot. A good guy would not associate themselves with a criminal organization, or as they call it, a 1%er club. There are plenty of clubs to join that are not associated with criminal activity that ride together. They joined a 1%er club for a reason and it wasn't to be "a good guy".

[jmra]

Well I have known and still know many Bandidos. To group them all into "they are bad" group is not right. Almost like saying NFL and NBA are thug gang members. There are some very good folks along with some very bad folks also. I don't know as I haven't talked to any of them on the matter but to me the whole ordeal just has a bad vibe and fishy smell to it, almost as if a set up deal. We all know media reports get most things wrong all the time and rush to the story lines. So it could be months before really know most true facts, if true then cause of the way things get spun. I still think there is way more to the story then is getting aired out.

The NBA and NFL does not identify themselves as a outlaw club so your comparison is moot. A good guy would not associate themselves with a criminal organization, or as they call it, a 1%er club. There are plenty of clubs to join that are not associated with criminal activity that ride together. They joined a 1%er club for a reason and it wasn't to be "a good guy".

[carlson1]

These folks are not a club. They pledge their allegiance to a GANG. These thugs may have day time jobs (good for them), but it doesn't make them solid citizens.

You eventually become like those you hang around. It sounds as if we have folks here that are "hang arounds" or "prospects." I dealt with the Cossacks in Tyler in the 80's (as LEO). They were thugs back then. They have just regened into more thugs.

[PUCKER]

One of the first few results for Cossacks Texas MC vest, note the SS lightning bolts (both tattoo and patch), draw your own conclusions.

[anygunanywhere]

That doesn't make it a fact.

Umm, I think you and I are saying the same thing. From the gist of your posts I agree with you.

[mojo84]

That doesn't make it a fact.

Umm, I think you and I are saying the same thing. From the gist of your posts I agree with you.

My apologies. I may have been somewhat preoccupied and apparently misinterpreted your comment.

[anygunanywhere]

No problem, brother. A lot going on on this thread.

[cb1000rider]

You do realize that the same people on this forum that preach "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that are jumping on the FRY EM ALL wagon? The same ones that scream the MSM is liberal and full of it are not willing to accept that some of these guys are GREAT PEOPLE....but because they belong to a Motorcycle Club they must be criminals....

That's my concern too. I'm not entirely sure that wearing one of these vests means that you've committed your life to a criminal lifestyle, contrary to Sons of Anarchy fiction. I'm not saying that they're alter-boys, but 1M bail for wearing a vest, associating with the "wrong" group - while not smart, there was ZERO sorting out of who did what here.. It's arrest them all - and I can live with that, but supported buy a judicial branch who just wiped all of them out financially by sticking them in jail essentially without bond... That's not innocent until guilty.. And the financial reality is that it's going to be real hard to hire an attorney that could provide a chance at reasonable justice after a month of unemployment. It's not like anyone is going to stand up and take these cases pro-bono.

Deserve it? Maybe, but in no way is it fair or innocent until proven guilty.

I haven't met a lot of bad bikers. I have met a lot of bikers that look counter-culture. Many of those have the look, but with the money to ride a $20k motorcycle, they're very mainstream at home. Personally, I've got zero fear when one of these clubs rides through locally. And I don't really know what they're doing behind the scenes. I'm sure there are lots of true counter-culture bikers that I haven't met.. I don't know many patched-up types.

All I'm sayin' is SHOW me that they're criminals. Being involved in a big group altercation doesn't make 200 people criminals. Certainly some are. Certainly some are not. We're all pretty much pro self-defense here.. Are we 100% sure that it was an organized line up and shoot with 0% self-defense going on?

Most of us - being in the wrong place at the wrong time, would probably be caught holding a firearm in this situation. Not all bad guys carry guns. Not all bad guys have a leather vest and a patch logo on it. I'm not down with conviction based on clothes or association, sorry.

Zero collateral damage to people? Headshots. Just bikers dead? Something is really really odd here... Waco may be more scary than Williamson county.

[Oldgringo]

You do realize that the same people on this forum that preach "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that are jumping on the FRY EM ALL wagon? The same ones that scream the MSM is liberal and full of it are not willing to accept that some of these guys are GREAT PEOPLE....but because they belong to a Motorcycle Club they must be criminals....

That's my concern too. I'm not entirely sure that wearing one of these vests means that you've committed your life to a criminal lifestyle, contrary to Sons of Anarchy fiction. I'm not saying that they're alter-boys, but 1M bail for wearing a vest, associating with the "wrong" group - while not smart, there was ZERO sorting out of who did what here.. It's arrest them all - and I can live with that, but supported buy a judicial branch who just wiped all of them out financially by sticking them in jail essentially without bond... That's not innocent until guilty.. And the financial reality is that it's going to be real hard to hire an attorney that could provide a chance at reasonable justice after a month of unemployment. It's not like anyone is going to stand up and take these cases pro-bono.

Deserve it? Maybe, but in no way is it fair or innocent until proven guilty.

I haven't met a lot of bad bikers. I have met a lot of bikers that look counter-culture. Many of those have the look, but with the money to ride a $20k motorcycle, they're very mainstream at home. Personally, I've got zero fear when one of these clubs rides through locally. And I don't really know what they're doing behind the scenes. I'm sure there are lots of true counter-culture bikers that I haven't met.. I don't know many patched-up types.

All I'm sayin' is SHOW me that they're criminals. Being involved in a big group altercation doesn't make 200 people criminals. Certainly some are. Certainly some are not. We're all pretty much pro self-defense here.. Are we 100% sure that it was an organized line up and shoot with 0% self-defense going on?

Most of us - being in the wrong place at the wrong time, would probably be caught holding a firearm in this situation. Not all bad guys carry guns. Not all bad guys have a leather vest and a patch logo on it. I'm not down with conviction based on clothes or association, sorry.

Zero collateral damage to people? Headshots. Just bikers dead? Something is really really odd here... Waco may be more scary than Williamson county.

My Momma, bless her heart, told me that you are known by the company you keep.....and she was right. 'Nuff said...

[TVGuy]

My Momma, bless her heart, told me that you are known by the company you keep.....and she was right. 'Nuff said...

^^^This^^^

[SkipB]

I tried to post a little info about what was going on here as I was glued to the TV interviews given by the Waco PD spokesman. Some here seem to want to come up with conspiracy theory for what ever reason. There are a lot of regular guys and gals out there that love to ride. This is not about them. This is about a bunch of bad guys gathering with bad intent. I don't care what anyone says about motor cycle gang riders, they are bad. I have had to deal with them when I was in Police work back in the 70's and 80's. The bottom line here is a bunch of them gathered at Twin Peaks, the reason is not important. A big shoot out and brawl insured. Bullets were flying every where. Fortunately there were Police ready at the scene and were able to contain it to the Twin Peaks location. Fortunately no innocent bystanders were injured, a tribute to the Officers at the scene for their quick response to contain it. It is very unsettling for those of us who live here and those that shop at the Central Texas Market Place. We have a very good Police force in our area and a very good DA. They have tried very hard to gather all the evidence properly and will go through all the people arrested and decide who should be charged and who should not. We should let them do their job. No matter what anyone thinks of those that lost their life or were injured in the event they all have someone that loves them. We should pray for them.