What happens when you grab the slide of firing gun

[A-R]

https://www.full30.com/video/03364ce1b5 ... ?ref=MACFB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Javier730]

Real good video. Dangerous, yet very informative for anyone who has any sort of interest in self preservation. Know what happens so you know what your next move should be. Rack the slide and take it from there.

[RoyGBiv]

Interesting

[jmra]

I'm thinking most BGs don't practice good trigger finger control (finger is probably going to be on the trigger when the gun is pointed at your head). Unless the BG gets distracted I have to think the likelyhood that you can grab the gun and push it out of the line of fire of your head before he pulls the trigger is extremely low. Maybe if he is looking down at your wallet as you hand it to him he would be distracted enough that you could make the move with your other hand, maybe. Would be interesting to try with an unloaded airsoft pistol or a toy gun of some sort. It would be interesting to compare the odds of successfully disarming the BG in that situation to the odds of the BG walking away once he has what he wants without pulling the trigger. It's always good to know and plays the odds that favor you.

[jayinsat]

I'm thinking most BGs don't practice good trigger finger control (finger is probably going to be on the trigger when the gun is pointed at your head). Unless the BG gets distracted I have to think the likelyhood that you can grab the gun and push it out of the line of fire of your head before he pulls the trigger is extremely low. Maybe if he is looking down at your wallet as you hand it to him he would be distracted enough that you could make the move with your other hand, maybe. Would be interesting to try with an unloaded airsoft pistol or a toy gun of some sort. It would be interesting to compare the odds of successfully disarming the BG in that situation to the odds of the BG walking away once he has what he wants without pulling the trigger. It's always good to know and plays the odds that favor you.

It relies on the element of surprise. In martial arts its taught that the natural reaction of raising your hands, shrugging your shoulders and the look of shock is the first move of disarming a BG with a gun to your head. You go with that response and add to it by pressing your head/body, as well as your hands, as close to the muzzle as possible. This allows for a surprising and rapid rotation of the body and grabbing of the gun that overwhelms the BG's OODA loop (reaction time). The caveats: BG must be stupid enough to put the gun close to you. This does not work with space between you and BG.

It is actually quite likely that your controlled movement will be much quicker than the BG's reactionary movement. YOU MUST TRAIN REGULARLY for this to be effective though.

YMMV

[jayinsat]

Example:
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[Javier730]

Example:
[youtube][/youtube]

I cant say I could do it any better myself, but I would think moving your head out of the way of the muzzle would improve the technique.

[ScooterSissy]

I'm thinking most BGs don't practice good trigger finger control (finger is probably going to be on the trigger when the gun is pointed at your head). Unless the BG gets distracted I have to think the likelyhood that you can grab the gun and push it out of the line of fire of your head before he pulls the trigger is extremely low. Maybe if he is looking down at your wallet as you hand it to him he would be distracted enough that you could make the move with your other hand, maybe. Would be interesting to try with an unloaded airsoft pistol or a toy gun of some sort. It would be interesting to compare the odds of successfully disarming the BG in that situation to the odds of the BG walking away once he has what he wants without pulling the trigger. It's always good to know and plays the odds that favor you.

I disagree. I did martial arts for 3 years, and the instructor I had repeatedly did a an exercise for new students demonstrating this. Keep in mind, this is dependent on the "shooter" waiting for the "victim" to do something before firing. He would demonstrate, telling the "shooter" to say "bang" when he wants to pull the trigger. Every time, the gun was pointing away (using moves almost identical to what was shown in the video). Then he'd have a new student become the "victim", and within minutes could teach them how to do it.

Part of the requirement for success is also that the person trying to disarm must be decisive in their actions, and move quickly.

[jayinsat]

I'm thinking most BGs don't practice good trigger finger control (finger is probably going to be on the trigger when the gun is pointed at your head). Unless the BG gets distracted I have to think the likelyhood that you can grab the gun and push it out of the line of fire of your head before he pulls the trigger is extremely low. Maybe if he is looking down at your wallet as you hand it to him he would be distracted enough that you could make the move with your other hand, maybe. Would be interesting to try with an unloaded airsoft pistol or a toy gun of some sort. It would be interesting to compare the odds of successfully disarming the BG in that situation to the odds of the BG walking away once he has what he wants without pulling the trigger. It's always good to know and plays the odds that favor you.

I disagree. I did martial arts for 3 years, and the instructor I had repeatedly did a an exercise for new students demonstrating this. Keep in mind, this is dependent on the "shooter" waiting for the "victim" to do something before firing. He would demonstrate, telling the "shooter" to say "bang" when he wants to pull the trigger. Every time, the gun was pointing away (using moves almost identical to what was shown in the video). Then he'd have a new student become the "victim", and within minutes could teach them how to do it.

Part of the requirement for success is also that the person trying to disarm must be decisive in their actions, and move quickly.

Exactly ScooterSissy. One thing though, move "smoothly" rather than "quickly". "Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast"

[Scott B.]

I was as at a small security briefing years ago given by the sergeant of the guard for the facility I was then stationed at. It covered security response (get the heck out of the way, nothing young marines love more than putting a boot into a navy back as they run you over), use of deadly force, function of the gate and internal guards, etc.

Somehow, the conversation got around to what to do if there were an incident at the interior entry lock and you were threatened with a sidearm (the guard had gone nuts, or something). This was just before the services switched over to the Beretta.

I'll never forget him explaining and demonstrating, 'grab the weapon, push the slide out-of-battery.' The reaction that went around our conference table was pretty priceless navy dungeon dwellers versus a lost-the-plot marine in a small confined space fighting over his 45...no thank you.

[ELB]

Our training group (and me personally) have done variants of both exercises demonstrated in that video, with good results.

One of the potential problems with a contact shot (such as you might want to do if in a close struggle with someone) is that pressing muzzle against a soft (fleshy) surface may push the slide back far enough to be out of battery. To counter this, you can put your thumb on the back of the slide to hold it in battery (easy on glocks, for those with an exposed hammer I guess you'll have to put it beside the hammer, but still against the back of the slide). It turns your pistol into a one-shot, but it is a sure shot. You'll have to rack the slide for subsequent shots.

Does it hurt? Not with my 9mm glock. The slide will push back a bit, but that's it. I worked up to trying it the first time, I put my thumb beside the back of the slide and fired, then just a little bit around the corner and fired, a little more and fired, and finally just flat on the back of it. It was no problem.

We've also tried out the fire-while-holding-the-slide exercise and got the same results as in the video -- a one-shot pistol.

As for moving out of the line of fire before the shooter can pull the trigger, even I can do that, and I am not particularly fast. We did pretty much the same drill as shown in the video, and as ScooterSissy pointed out, decisive, explosive movement is the key. A further point -- the shooter can obviously start tracking you and fire again, so it is not enough to just get out of the way, you must do something to avoid that, either get to cover, or when close-in move forward and into your opponent, and engage him -- disarm etc.

[A-R]

Remember this: if the person holding the gun is also fast and expecting a disarm attempt (oxymoronic to place a gun within arms reach, but that's a different discussion) all they have to do is bend their arm, pulling the gun straight back toward their body, while pulling the trigger and you are shot. Period. I don't care how fast your disarm maneuver is, it will never be fast enough to defeat a gunman who is anticipating it.

[ScooterSissy]

Remember this: if the person holding the gun is also fast and expecting a disarm attempt (oxymoronic to place a gun within arms reach, but that's a different discussion) all they have to do is bend their arm, pulling the gun straight back toward their body, while pulling the trigger and you are shot. Period. I don't care how fast your disarm maneuver is, it will never be fast enough to defeat a gunman who is anticipating it.

You may be right, all I can do is speak from personal experience. I've done the exercise mentioned at least a couple of dozen times with my (then) instructor. In every single case, where I held the weapon; no matter how much I "prepared" myself for the move by him, when I said the word "bang", the gun was pointed away from him. If I was waiting on him before I "shot" (and was within reach), I couldn't shoot him.

As was pointed out though, once you've fended off the shot, you've got do to something, or the shooter will retarget you, and likely won't be waiting on you that time. My instructor was pretty good at that move too, but admittedly that takes more practice and skill.

[A-R]

Vocalizing the word "bang" and pulling a trigger are not the same. Pulling a trigger is quicker and easier, physically and mentally, especially under stress as a reflex gross motor function.

[TexasVet]

One thing those that say that a disarm would be too slow and it would be easy to pull the trigger is that "action beats reaction". He has to make the decision to pull the trigger AFTER you have made the decision to move AND gave indication that you are moving. So the more you telegraph the earlier in your movement he will pick it up. Some of it is technique and repetition that gives you confidence, so you are not just waving at the gun pointed at you.