Non-CHL Self Defense

[Osborne2510]

So here's the story, I'm sitting outside at a bar having an after work beer waiting for a friend. Said friend has a blue car and a wanna be gangsta blood comes out of his car and threatens friend and flashes gun. I do not have a CHL so my pistol is always in my car. Do I have the right to go to my car and retrieve my pistol to stop the threat?

[jmra]

Better plan would be to get in your car and call 911. Unless you were able to retrieve your gun totally undetected...what's the old saying, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
I'd say legally you would be fine.

[Keith B]

So here's the story, I'm sitting outside at a bar having an after work beer waiting for a friend. Said friend has a blue car and a wanna be gangsta blood comes out of his car and threatens friend and flashes gun. I do not have a CHL so my pistol is always in my car. Do I have the right to go to my car and retrieve my pistol to stop the threat?

No. If you have to go retrieve your handgun, then there is time to move inside where there are a lot more people and potentially away from the threat. Get on the phone immediately, and move away.

[jmra]

So here's the story, I'm sitting outside at a bar having an after work beer waiting for a friend. Said friend has a blue car and a wanna be gangsta blood comes out of his car and threatens friend and flashes gun. I do not have a CHL so my pistol is always in my car. Do I have the right to go to my car and retrieve my pistol to stop the threat?

No. If you have to go retrieve your handgun, then there is time to move inside where there are a lot more people and potentially away from the threat. Get on the phone immediately, and move away.

with Keith. You can always find another friend.

[sugar land dave]

IF you have time and opportunity to move away to a safe location, then you have time and opportunity to call 911 at that safe location. Aside from increasing danger to yourself, unlicensed carry and returning to the scene might be interpreted by police as failure to diffuse the situation or worse. A better question might be how badly do you need a friend whose choices expose you to "wanna be gangsters".

[tomtexan]

So here's the story, I'm sitting outside at a bar having an after work beer waiting for a friend. Said friend has a blue car and a wanna be gangsta blood comes out of his car and threatens friend and flashes gun. I do not have a CHL so my pistol is always in my car. Do I have the right to go to my car and retrieve my pistol to stop the threat?

The highlighted red is going to work against you in a big way once the police arrive, if you decide to
"go to my car and retrieve my pistol."

As stated above by many others, get to a safe location and call 911.

[treadlightly]

My understanding is that since there is no minimum blood alcohol level for intoxication, one sip of beer plus gun equals legally drunk.

Beer is good. I have one every couple of years. I don't think of myself as a teetotaler at all, but zero alcohol in the company of my firearm is an easy personal standard to remember. Stay legal and use good judgement, that's what matters.

[Keith B]

My understanding is that since there is no minimum blood alcohol level for intoxication, one sip of beer plus gun equals legally drunk.

This is incorrect. There is a minimum for blood alcohol content, and that is 0.08 or more, as spelled out in TPC 49.01. There are actually two requirements for intoxicated, and you must meet one or the other:

§ 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
........
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or
physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a
controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of
two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the
body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.

So if a police officer determines you meet (A), then you are intoxicated by the officers determination. If you have a BAC test performed, and you are 0.08 or greater as defined by (B), then you are de facto intoxicated.

(A) will be harder for the prosecution to prove in court. (B) would be evidence that you were actually intoxicated by the statute.

[jmra]

a while back you said you were going to investigate getting a license from another state. Did you follow through? Do you qualify elsewhere?

[TexasCajun]

An even better solution, even if you are armed, is to don't do stupid things with stupid people in stupid places at stupid times. And is not an all or nothing conditional. Any time even one of the stupids applies, you may want to pause and reconsider.

[Glockster]

So here's the story, I'm sitting outside at a bar having an after work beer waiting for a friend. Said friend has a blue car and a wanna be gangsta blood comes out of his car and threatens friend and flashes gun. I do not have a CHL so my pistol is always in my car. Do I have the right to go to my car and retrieve my pistol to stop the threat?

No. If you have to go retrieve your handgun, then there is time to move inside where there are a lot more people and potentially away from the threat. Get on the phone immediately, and move away.

I think that if you retrieved your gun and then had to use it, you'd very likely be facing some serious charges.

[mojo84]

Did the thug get out of your friend's car or his (thug) car? I think this makes a difference.

If you are carrying under MPA and the thug gets out of his (thug's) car and pulls a gun on your friend, I think you may be OK in defending him. However, if you are intoxicated or impaired in the least bit, I think you would be in big trouble.

Calling 911 is always good advice in a situation such as this.

Too many unknowns to make a difinitive statement about this.

[Jason K]

Better plan would be to get in your car and call 911. Unless you were able to retrieve your gun totally undetected...what's the old saying, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
I'd say legally you would be fine.

Even better plan....get in your call and call 911 while driving away. Always play it safe.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Here is an answer based solely on Texas law. I do not opine whether or not it is wise.

Tex. Penal Code §9.33 allows you to defend any 3rd person, if you reasonably believe that you would be able to defend yourself, if you were in their shoes. This belief must be based upon the facts as you reasonably believe them to exist. This also means you would meet the requirements of Tex. Penal Code §§9.31 and 9.32.

Getting out of your car with your handgun would violate Tex. Penal Code §46.02. If you were arrested and charged, then you could assert the defense of "necessity" available in Tex. Penal Code §9.22 (see below). This defense is based on the concept that the harm you are attempting to prevent (death or serious bodily injury to an innocent person) is greater than the harm the law you violated seeks to prevent (carrying a handgun without a license). This is not an automatic win for the defendant, because the jury must balance the "harm."

Chas.

Sec. 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;

(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and

(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

[EEllis]

For what it's worth, I think you can argue that it's a legal act to get your gun and defend you friend if you felt his life was in danger and that getting the gun was the best way you had to do so. The problem comes when the cops or DA see it otherwise. You are obviously pushing very close to the line if you did this so there can always be people who see the situation differently than you do. That's a big part of why there are courts.