When 51% isn't 51%

[rc-mike]

Hello Everyone,

I've been lurking for a while, but now I need to ask a question so I've come out of my nice dark lurking corner.

If a business has posted a Red 51% sign, but TBAC says the business is really a Blue sign. Can you carry anyway? I realize in most cases you won't know this unless you've researched it... but it made me think. Is the law to carry past the sign or to carry into a 51% establishment? Also... now that I've thought about it. If they've posted the blue sign in error can you get in trouble for carrying if you didn't know they were a 51% establishment?

Thank you for any enlightenment.

-Mike-

[jmra]

Welcome to the forum. I would follow the signs and report any error postings you encounter to TBAC. Otherwise, you might beat the rap but not the ride.

[Keith B]

Hello Everyone,

I've been lurking for a while, but now I need to ask a question so I've come out of my nice dark lurking corner.

If a business has posted a Red 51% sign, but TBAC says the business is really a Blue sign. Can you carry anyway? I realize in most cases you won't know this unless you've researched it... but it made me think. Is the law to carry past the sign or to carry into a 51% establishment? Also... now that I've thought about it. If they've posted the blue sign in error can you get in trouble for carrying if you didn't know they were a 51% establishment?

Thank you for any enlightenment.

-Mike-

If the location is not really a 51% location per the TABC, then yes, you may legally carry past a improperly posted 51% sign. Now, on the other hand, if a business IS 51% per the TABC, and they have the blue 'Unlicensed possession' sign posted, then you legally can't carry in the venue. However, since you may not know it really was a 51% location due to the wrong sign being posted, you have a defense to prosecution if arrested for it.

[rc-mike]

Thanks guys... That's what I thought. It's always best to know the rules, not that I plan to be the test case.

-Mike-

[Glockster]

Hello Everyone,

I've been lurking for a while, but now I need to ask a question so I've come out of my nice dark lurking corner.

If a business has posted a Red 51% sign, but TBAC says the business is really a Blue sign. Can you carry anyway? I realize in most cases you won't know this unless you've researched it... but it made me think. Is the law to carry past the sign or to carry into a 51% establishment? Also... now that I've thought about it. If they've posted the blue sign in error can you get in trouble for carrying if you didn't know they were a 51% establishment?

Thank you for any enlightenment.

-Mike-

If the location is not really a 51% location per the TABC, then yes, you may legally carry past a improperly posted 51% sign. Now, on the other hand, if a business IS 51% per the TABC, and they have the blue 'Unlicensed possession' sign posted, then you legally can't carry in the venue. However, since you may not know it really was a 51% location due to the wrong sign being posted, you have a defense to prosecution if arrested for it.

This does make me rather curious about something - will the ride always "win?" Meaning, you see as you describe it, a 51% sign posted, and you decide to stop and then/there check the signage with TABC and are able to confirm that the sign is wrong....so after proceeding past the sign, you are stopped by a LEO and LEO then (somehow) knows you are CC, is it likely that the LEO is going to be willing to also check TABC? Maybe another way to ask this is in general would a LEO here know about the TABC lookup ability and then let you go? I recognize that actual mileage varies on this with some LEOs perhaps being more willing to listen, etc. But as unusual, your answers always educate me as a newbie to TX and I wonder if anyone has experienced a LEO willing to check it out....first, as in before the ride.

[sjfcontrol]

All he would have to do is look at the establishment's liquor license. It will say either "Sign = blue" or "Sign = red".

Not that he would necessarily do that.

[Keith B]

This does make me rather curious about something - will the ride always "win?" Meaning, you see as you describe it, a 51% sign posted, and you decide to stop and then/there check the signage with TABC and are able to confirm that the sign is wrong....so after proceeding past the sign, you are stopped by a LEO and LEO then (somehow) knows you are CC, is it likely that the LEO is going to be willing to also check TABC? Maybe another way to ask this is in general would a LEO here know about the TABC lookup ability and then let you go? I recognize that actual mileage varies on this with some LEOs perhaps being more willing to listen, etc. But as unusual, your answers always educate me as a newbie to TX and I wonder if anyone has experienced a LEO willing to check it out....first, as in before the ride.

That would be a battle for a lawyer if they try to prosecute. They really couldn't make any charges stick because you have not broken any law by carrying past an invalid sign in into a permissible location. So, you might get arrested, charged with what they think is a valid charge, then the charges would have to be dismissed because they were invalid. At that point you could go back against the department for false arrest and probably get some restitution, but probably not until you have spent money with your lawyer fighting the invalid charges.

[Glockster]

This does make me rather curious about something - will the ride always "win?" Meaning, you see as you describe it, a 51% sign posted, and you decide to stop and then/there check the signage with TABC and are able to confirm that the sign is wrong....so after proceeding past the sign, you are stopped by a LEO and LEO then (somehow) knows you are CC, is it likely that the LEO is going to be willing to also check TABC? Maybe another way to ask this is in general would a LEO here know about the TABC lookup ability and then let you go? I recognize that actual mileage varies on this with some LEOs perhaps being more willing to listen, etc. But as unusual, your answers always educate me as a newbie to TX and I wonder if anyone has experienced a LEO willing to check it out....first, as in before the ride.

That would be a battle for a lawyer if they try to prosecute. They really couldn't make any charges stick because you have not broken any law by carrying past an invalid sign in into a permissible location. So, you might get arrested, charged with what they think is a valid charge, then the charges would have to be dismissed because they were invalid. At that point you could go back against the department for false arrest and probably get some restitution, but probably not until you have spent money with your lawyer fighting the invalid charges.

Makes sense and hope I never have to make that decision. Thanks!

[joelamosobadiah]

Also, just wanted to reiterate, please report these violations to TABC. They do respond and have been very helpful in resolving the situation in my experiences. Makes life easier for all of us!

[Greybeard]

Yes, do what Joe just said. Drop the dime.

[rc-mike]

Yes, I've already done that. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

-Mike-

[The_Busy_Mom]

Yes, do what Joe just said. Drop the dime.

We have been dropping the dime on a local establishment for more than a year now, and nothing has changed. Can't figure out whether the owner is just confused or purposefully displaying the wrong sign. Or maybe TABC hasn't said anything to them, so they are none-the-wiser.

TBM

[srothstein]

All he would have to do is look at the establishment's liquor license. It will say either "Sign = blue" or "Sign = red".

Not that he would necessarily do that.

I am not sure how many of the local peace officers would know about the license and what that line means. The academy only has 4 hours of class on TABC establishments and no required refresher after that. I know that most officers will know to look at the license to get the number for their reports to prove it is in fact a licensed premise, but I do not know if they understand all of the information on it.

I am fairly confident that it would truly be a case of beating the rap and not the ride.

[joelamosobadiah]

Yes, do what Joe just said. Drop the dime.

We have been dropping the dime on a local establishment for more than a year now, and nothing has changed. Can't figure out whether the owner is just confused or purposefully displaying the wrong sign. Or maybe TABC hasn't said anything to them, so they are none-the-wiser.

TBM

That's interesting. When I reported the one instance I have found, TABC responded and said they would make contact with the establishment and on my next visit about a week later it was changed. They are an establishment that I am sure is about 48.5% alcohol so they may go back and forth on their classification at times.

[n5wd]

Yes, do what Joe just said. Drop the dime.

We have been dropping the dime on a local establishment for more than a year now, and nothing has changed. Can't figure out whether the owner is just confused or purposefully displaying the wrong sign. Or maybe TABC hasn't said anything to them, so they are none-the-wiser.

TBM

Easy to find out which... Next time call, and ask for a supervisor. Explain that you've talked with Agent So-and-so three times to report an invalid TABC sign at Such-And-Such, and it's been over a year, and is still not being posted correctly. Can I tell my State Representative that Supervising Agent Joe Blow has promised that the situation will be rectified within hree days or so?

Let them know that the next call goes to HIS boss, and so...