Mall security and right to physically detain you

[MotherBear]

In theory, I don't have any problem with Walmart (or any other store) wanting to check my receipt. In theory.
Theft is a real problem. It drives up the cost of goods for all of us. If receipt checking catches thieves, it's a small inconvenience.

Say I had something that wasn't on my receipt. If the screener catches it, is that theft? Or do they simply return you to the register?

We've got people checking receipts, but we've also got stores that do self-checkout. Seems odd to me.

I shop at Sam's regularly, and I use self checkout most of the time. Once I rang up an item that gave me a weird error, and the next item I scanned (avocados) didn't register. I didn't notice. Usually I count items in my basket and on the screen to make sure everything matches, but I have three small kids and the youngest is 2 so some days work better than others. The door receipt-checker politely pointed out the discrepancy; I turned bright red, apologized and went back to pay for the avocados; and then we left. It seemed to me that the checker assumed it was an honest mistake, although maybe he was just good at masking his skepticism. My guess is that their reaction is going to depend a lot on context and on your reaction.

[Charlies.Contingency]

EEllis,

You said: "Spend your money somewhere else instead of trying to make everyones life harder so you can feel all righteous."

Where did that come from?

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

How is expressing my opinion making everyone's life harder?

Huh?

You have the right to skip my posts, but not to chastise me. You're not a moderator. You're just a member, like me.

I don't think we're on the same page.

Perhaps, I wasn't clear enough.

I don't feel self righteous in the least, I'm just not willing to jump through hoops I don't have to. If don't mind doing so, well, I'm happy for you.

Plus, I would stop and go through the bother if a receipt was requested by an LEO, but not a store clerk. Not any longer.

Without going through a long winded response, I'll post this again:

"Whatever shoplifting/theft problems they have are theirs, not mine. Once money changes hands at the register, their merchandise becomes my personal property and I have no obligation to account for any of it to anyone."

Well that's just dandy, you go ahead and refuse to comply with store owners and workers who are doing their job, and providing you merchandise. If I were somebody in that position, you be banned from the store, just for being a jerk. It's your self perceived right to refuse to show proof that something belongs to you, but I think a store that gets disrespected like such, does not need the business that bad to be disrespected. If I every ask somebody for proof of receipt in my place of business, and they blow me off, they will be kicked out, period. That is how I am, there's your warning, trespassing will be dealt with according, have a great day, and don't forget that store owners have their rights too.





<Edited to add the following>

If you know they are going to ask and you still go and refuse to follow general accepted behavior then I think there is something improper about your behavior. Plenty of other businesses don't check receipts. That's right you do whatever you want but I think people who are of your opinion that they should ignore receipt checks should not go to establishments that do such checks. They still don't have the right to stop you, but I would hope they would just ban you from the stores for not following they stores policy. Again you can do whatever you want I just believe it's wrong., impolite, way egocentric, however you want to describe it.

Just noticed this, glad I'm not the only one that see's such behavior as rude.

[EEllis]

Next time they ask you for a receipt pepper spray them.

http://www.khou.com/story/local/2014/12/21/12115826/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Abraham]

MotherBear,

I too am a Sams member.

I have no problem with them reconciling my receipt with my purchases. I agreed to this with my paid membership.

What some seem to find intolerable in my attitude is when I'm forced to this receipt hassle when I'm not a member of their store.

I have to stand by while I'm assumed a potential thief until proven otherwise.

Yes, I could meekly acquiesce to this exercise, but this forum repeatedly discusses the chipping away of our freedoms.

Where are their voices?

[Right2Carry]

Next time they ask you for a receipt pepper spray them.

http://www.khou.com/story/local/2014/12/21/12115826/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Disgusting pepper spraying a 68 year old woman!

[Charlies.Contingency]

MotherBear,

I too am a Sams member.

I have no problem with them reconciling my receipt with my purchases. I agreed to this with my paid membership.

What some seem to find intolerable in my attitude is when I'm forced to this receipt hassle when I'm not a member of their store.

I have to stand by while I'm assumed a potential thief until proven otherwise.

Yes, I could meekly acquiesce to this exercise, but this forum repeatedly discusses the chipping away of our freedoms.

Where are their voices?

How is that, it's their right to have whatever kind of shopping policy they like. Is it your loss of freedoms if you get asked for your ID for using your credit card? It's your choice to go there, nobody forces you to go shopping at one place that revokes your right to buy stuff without hassling you over confirming you paid for everything... what is this terrible world coming to? What is the big deal, I seriously do not get it.

[Abraham]

Charlies.Contingency,

Fair enough.

Here's the deal.

I paid for my purchases. After that exchange the items are mine. Not the stores

The store employee doesn't have a right to assume I'm a thief by their actions of insisting I show a receipt.

I paid for my purchases. I don't live in 1960's East Berlin.

I'm not being rude if I simply walk past them.

If, they feel compelled to arrest me for walking past them, do so.

See what happens after that...

I guess the principle is mind boggling to some that you don't have to be disrespected by the receipt checking scenario. It would seem some are in favor of being considered a thief and a jerk for not meekly giving in to something rather degrading.

But hey, if you don't mind being treated like a thief, well enjoy...

[Charlies.Contingency]

Charlies.Contingency,

Fair enough.

Here's the deal.

I paid for my purchases. After that exchange the items are mine. Not the stores

The store employee doesn't have a right to assume I'm a thief by their actions of insisting I show a receipt.

I paid for my purchases. I don't live in 1960's East Berlin.

I'm not being rude if I simply walk past them.

If, they feel compelled to arrest me for walking past them, do so.

See what happens after that...

I guess the principle is mind boggling to some that you don't have to be disrespected by the receipt checking scenario. It would seem some are in favor of being considered a thief and a jerk for not meekly giving in to something rather degrading.

But hey, if you don't mind being treated like a thief, well enjoy...

If you were to have something from a place of business of mine, and try to leave with it, without any way of proving it's yours or that you bought it, it would not end well for you. If you paid for it, that's fine, but you don't need to have merchandise of my business in my business, without a receipt showing that you own it. Unless you do, everything in that store that's mine, is mine. You can't just walk into a convenient store with pockets full of snickers, and not expect trouble. As far as anybody's concerned, it's stealing unless you can prove their yours. Inventory could be checked later, but if there's no evidence in your favor, sucks to be you.

So by me asking people to show a receipt, that's treating them like a thief? So I should never ask for a receipt, because I will hurt somebody's feelings? That will get me far in business when people are ripping me off...

I reserve the right to ask you for a receipt, but remember that I reserve the right to defend my business from thieves. You're not a thief if you show that it's your receipt should I feel the need to. Not having the right to make you prove it is ridiculous. How then can you prove theft? You don't have to show any receipt, it's yours because you say it is, that should be good enough, right? I don't think so, if it ever comes to that, you'll see stores where you can't shop, and you have to pay for an item up front, so you couldn't just claim it's yours and leave... Is the only way to prove theft to have camera's watching everything you do everywhere your at, because you didn't steal anything unless we have 100% solid evidence? That's a load of... Sorry if we disagree, but that's the way I see it.

[EEllis]

It's kind of funny that this issue creates such emotion in some people. here is a link to a story about a woman who assaulted a greeter at walmart when she was asked for a receipt. The funny thing is she had the receipt.
http://consumerist.com/2011/12/28/walma ... -the-face/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then there was the guy on trial for knocking down a greeter when he "Defended Himself" after a greeter touched him.
http://consumerist.com/2008/03/12/man-o ... t-checker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here is a story about a couple who gave a smack down to a best buy employee who dared ask for a receipt when the couple paid for an item somewhere beside the front checkouts. Since the employee couldn't of seen them pay he asked for a receipt. Big mistake.
http://consumerist.com/2012/12/21/coupl ... t-checker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




Now I don't think checking receipts are in and of themselves all that effective at stopping thevies. I do think that if a store routinely checks everyones receipt that a sizable amount of potential thieves will decide not to even try. I believe the theory is that while they won't directly catch people stealing theft generally is reduced. Now we don't have access to the numbers that would prove or disprove such belief but it does seem reasonable to me. For all the money these store make they don't have that big a margin on alot of their items. They are forced to charge more money for what they do sell because of theft. If walmart will have to raise prices if the do away with receipt checkers then I would just ass soon they keep them. Those that don't like it why not go to the many nicer places that wont ask for your receipt.

[Charlies.Contingency]

It's kind of funny that this issue creates such emotion in some people. here is a link to a story about a woman who assaulted a greeter at walmart when she was asked for a receipt. The funny thing is she had the receipt.
http://consumerist.com/2011/12/28/walma ... -the-face/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then there was the guy on trial for knocking down a greeter when he "Defended Himself" after a greeter touched him.
http://consumerist.com/2008/03/12/man-o ... t-checker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here is a story about a couple who gave a smack down to a best buy employee who dared ask for a receipt when the couple paid for an item somewhere beside the front checkouts. Since the employee couldn't of seen them pay he asked for a receipt. Big mistake.
http://consumerist.com/2012/12/21/coupl ... t-checker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




Now I don't think checking receipts are in and of themselves all that effective at stopping thevies. I do think that if a store routinely checks everyones receipt that a sizable amount of potential thieves will decide not to even try. I believe the theory is that while they won't directly catch people stealing theft generally is reduced. Now we don't have access to the numbers that would prove or disprove such belief but it does seem reasonable to me. For all the money these store make they don't have that big a margin on alot of their items. They are forced to charge more money for what they do sell because of theft. If walmart will have to raise prices if the do away with receipt checkers then I would just ass soon they keep them. Those that don't like it why not go to the many nicer places that wont ask for your receipt.

(Nice links btw.)

[Abraham]

Charlies.Contingency,

This debate is fun. And, remember, we're not talking about Sams/Costco. No membership agreements here.

Let's assume I've paid for my purchases, have my receipt, but your store isn't efficient enough to have noticed. That's your problem, not mine. I've done the right thing...

Next, before exiting the store, I'm demanded my receipt to show proof of what I'm walking out of the store with.

I refuse on principle.

You, store owner, call the police.

When they show up and I'm proven innocent, you gonna be inna hepa trouble.

Why should the onus of proving my innocence fall on my shoulders, rather than yours? If you can't be efficient enough in your business practices to be certain I'm a thief, why am I obligated to a degrading search...? That doesn't wash.

Oh, for you that think this is being a drama queen, think again. Get on the cattle car, the train is heading where you don't want to go...

No more than proving I paid for my groceries before leaving the store am I going to put up with this exercise.

At least, not without a fight...

[jmra]

Charlies.Contingency,

Fair enough.

Here's the deal.

I paid for my purchases. After that exchange the items are mine. Not the stores

The store employee doesn't have a right to assume I'm a thief by their actions of insisting I show a receipt.

I paid for my purchases. I don't live in 1960's East Berlin.

I'm not being rude if I simply walk past them.

If, they feel compelled to arrest me for walking past them, do so.

See what happens after that...

I guess the principle is mind boggling to some that you don't have to be disrespected by the receipt checking scenario. It would seem some are in favor of being considered a thief and a jerk for not meekly giving in to something rather degrading.

But hey, if you don't mind being treated like a thief, well enjoy...

If you were to have something from a place of business of mine, and try to leave with it, without any way of proving it's yours or that you bought it, it would not end well for you. If you paid for it, that's fine, but you don't need to have merchandise of my business in my business, without a receipt showing that you own it. Unless you do, everything in that store that's mine, is mine. You can't just walk into a convenient store with pockets full of snickers, and not expect trouble. As far as anybody's concerned, it's stealing unless you can prove their yours. Inventory could be checked later, but if there's no evidence in your favor, sucks to be you.

So by me asking people to show a receipt, that's treating them like a thief? So I should never ask for a receipt, because I will hurt somebody's feelings? That will get me far in business when people are ripping me off...

I reserve the right to ask you for a receipt, but remember that I reserve the right to defend my business from thieves. You're not a thief if you show that it's your receipt should I feel the need to. Not having the right to make you prove it is ridiculous. How then can you prove theft? You don't have to show any receipt, it's yours because you say it is, that should be good enough, right? I don't think so, if it ever comes to that, you'll see stores where you can't shop, and you have to pay for an item up front, so you couldn't just claim it's yours and leave... Is the only way to prove theft to have camera's watching everything you do everywhere your at, because you didn't steal anything unless we have 100% solid evidence? That's a load of... Sorry if we disagree, but that's the way I see it.

Guilty until proven innocent.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Charlies.Contingency,

Fair enough.

Here's the deal.

I paid for my purchases. After that exchange the items are mine. Not the stores

The store employee doesn't have a right to assume I'm a thief by their actions of insisting I show a receipt.

I paid for my purchases. I don't live in 1960's East Berlin.

I'm not being rude if I simply walk past them.

If, they feel compelled to arrest me for walking past them, do so.

See what happens after that...

I guess the principle is mind boggling to some that you don't have to be disrespected by the receipt checking scenario. It would seem some are in favor of being considered a thief and a jerk for not meekly giving in to something rather degrading.

But hey, if you don't mind being treated like a thief, well enjoy...

If you were to have something from a place of business of mine, and try to leave with it, without any way of proving it's yours or that you bought it, it would not end well for you. If you paid for it, that's fine, but you don't need to have merchandise of my business in my business, without a receipt showing that you own it. Unless you do, everything in that store that's mine, is mine. You can't just walk into a convenient store with pockets full of snickers, and not expect trouble. As far as anybody's concerned, it's stealing unless you can prove their yours. Inventory could be checked later, but if there's no evidence in your favor, sucks to be you.

So by me asking people to show a receipt, that's treating them like a thief? So I should never ask for a receipt, because I will hurt somebody's feelings? That will get me far in business when people are ripping me off...

I reserve the right to ask you for a receipt, but remember that I reserve the right to defend my business from thieves. You're not a thief if you show that it's your receipt should I feel the need to. Not having the right to make you prove it is ridiculous. How then can you prove theft? You don't have to show any receipt, it's yours because you say it is, that should be good enough, right? I don't think so, if it ever comes to that, you'll see stores where you can't shop, and you have to pay for an item up front, so you couldn't just claim it's yours and leave... Is the only way to prove theft to have camera's watching everything you do everywhere your at, because you didn't steal anything unless we have 100% solid evidence? That's a load of... Sorry if we disagree, but that's the way I see it.

Guilty until proven innocent.

It's called it's not your property if it belongs to the store, how about that? Is it that hard to comprehend? I go into a store, and I pick up a rolex and nobody sees, who does it belong to? Me or the store? If it belongs to the store, it belongs to the store until you leave with proof of purchase in my opinion, otherwise everything is yours as soon as you pick it up, because nobody can prove otherwise.

[EEllis]

In theory, I don't have any problem with Walmart (or any other store) wanting to check my receipt. In theory.
Theft is a real problem. It drives up the cost of goods for all of us. If receipt checking catches thieves, it's a small inconvenience.

Say I had something that wasn't on my receipt. If the screener catches it, is that theft? Or do they simply return you to the register?

We've got people checking receipts, but we've also got stores that do self-checkout. Seems odd to me.

I shop at Sam's regularly, and I use self checkout most of the time. Once I rang up an item that gave me a weird error, and the next item I scanned (avocados) didn't register. I didn't notice. Usually I count items in my basket and on the screen to make sure everything matches, but I have three small kids and the youngest is 2 so some days work better than others. The door receipt-checker politely pointed out the discrepancy; I turned bright red, apologized and went back to pay for the avocados; and then we left. It seemed to me that the checker assumed it was an honest mistake, although maybe he was just good at masking his skepticism. My guess is that their reaction is going to depend a lot on context and on your reaction.

I saw a little thing on the net from a Costco employee. They said that the receipt check wasn't really about theft, at least not to the people working. They reportedly were given little to no training about theft and 90% of there training was about making sure the customer was being charged correctly for their items and that they had all of them. Seemingly many people end up with items being left behind and or charged for to many items. Their training seems to concentrate on those things and any Loss Prevention benefits were a bonus.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Charlies.Contingency,

This debate is fun. And, remember, we're not talking about Sams/Costco. No membership agreements here.

Let's assume I've paid for my purchases, have my receipt, but your store isn't efficient enough to have noticed. That's your problem, not mine. I've done the right thing...

Next, before exiting the store, I'm demanded my receipt to show proof of what I'm walking out of the store with.

I refuse on principle.

You, store owner, call the police.

When they show up and I'm proven innocent, you gonna be inna hepa trouble.

Why should the onus of proving my innocence fall on my shoulders, rather than yours? If you can't be efficient enough in your business practices to be certain I'm a thief, why am I obligated to a degrading search...? That doesn't wash.

Oh, for you that think this is being a drama queen, think again. Get on the cattle car, the train is heading where you don't want to go...

No more than proving I paid for my groceries before leaving the store am I going to put up with this exercise.

At least, not without a fight...

Oh ho ho, say I'm in my store, you check out, you go round about the store again, I ask to see your receipt to compare to what you now have in your bag? How am I guilty of wrong doing? Because I'm so inefficient at my job that I can't hove you to see you sneak something, yes, that's brilliant. Sue me, or fight me getting out the door because you're defending your rights to be a jerk. I'm willing to bet on whose side a jury would take on this if you "defended yourself" from a store owner.

BTW, I'm actually enjoying this debate, it's helping kill time at the moment. Also, I don't know if I'm on the same page, but we're past "receipt checkers. I'm talking about rights and property ownership now.

You can't just claim anything is yours and take it, that's called stealing if I can't prove you paid for it. Sorry.