Mall security and right to physically detain you

[EEllis]

This is really not applicable as it was a police officer that was asking for the receipt, not a mall security officer. (plus the guy was being a jerk overall.)

Yeah, no one on hear would ever be a jerk. :eyeroll:

I wasn't trying to say it was exact but I thought it had some relevance

A Peace Officer is a totally different set of circumstances in itself, as a police officer has the authority to detain you for investigation, as a security officer doesn't even have the power to investigate.

Really? :sarcasm:

[Keith B]

This is really not applicable as it was a police officer that was asking for the receipt, not a mall security officer. (plus the guy was being a jerk overall.)

Yeah, no one on hear would ever be a jerk. :eyeroll:

I wasn't trying to say it was exact but I thought it had some relevance

Not really. This topic is about security guards, and not police officers. The police officer in this case would have had the right to totally detain the individual and temporarily hold the items until the individual complied with showing the receipt. I personally would not have had near the patience with the guy that the officer did.

And, yeah, some people are jerks, even some of our forum members.

[Charlies.Contingency]

This is really not applicable as it was a police officer that was asking for the receipt, not a mall security officer. (plus the guy was being a jerk overall.)

Yeah, no one on hear would ever be a jerk. :eyeroll:

I wasn't trying to say it was exact but I thought it had some relevance

Not really. This topic is about security guards, and not police officers. The police officer in this case would have had the right to totally detain the individual and temporarily hold the items until the individual complied with showing the receipt. I personally would not have had near the patience with the guy that the officer did.

And, yeah, some people are jerks, even some of our forum members.

I for sure would not want to work a gig at one of the walmarts around San Antonio. I offer my sympathies to any of our members here that do.

Has anybody here ever had an issue leaving a store, such as not getting your receipt when you left?

Before I hit "submit," I just remember that I had. I had been stopped at the front door of a walmart by one of the little old lady greeters at about 10pm one day after buying some random stuff for my truck, such as spray paint. She asked me for my receipt, and I was so dumfounded whenever I looked for it my bags and I couldn't find it. She had the most suspicious expression I could imagine for a granny as I explained to her that the cashier must've not put it in my bag for me like they always do. I turned around, waited for the cashier to recognize my existence, then got my receipt from her, and proceeded to re-establish my rightful place of being the GG in her eyes. The result, nothing... I guess she thought I went and paid for my stuff or something, if only she knew...

[EEllis]

Not really. This topic is about security guards, and not police officers. The police officer in this case would have had the right to totally detain the individual and temporarily hold the items until the individual complied with showing the receipt. I personally would not have had near the patience with the guy that the officer did.

And, yeah, some people are jerks, even some of our forum members.

What I now have to clear items to make sure you think they are "relevant"? Hey if it means nothing to you then so be it. I still think it's a reasonable post.

[jmra]

Not really. This topic is about security guards, and not police officers. The police officer in this case would have had the right to totally detain the individual and temporarily hold the items until the individual complied with showing the receipt. I personally would not have had near the patience with the guy that the officer did.

And, yeah, some people are jerks, even some of our forum members.

What I now have to clear items to make sure you think they are "relevant"? Hey if it means nothing to you then so be it. I still think it's a reasonable post.

Are your hands in the air EEllis?

[gljjt]

This is really not applicable as it was a police officer that was asking for the receipt, not a mall security officer. (plus the guy was being a jerk overall.)

Yeah, no one on hear would ever be a jerk. :eyeroll:

I wasn't trying to say it was exact but I thought it had some relevance

Not really. This topic is about security guards, and not police officers. The police officer in this case would have had the right to totally detain the individual and temporarily hold the items until the individual complied with showing the receipt. I personally would not have had near the patience with the guy that the officer did.

And, yeah, some people are jerks, even some of our forum members.

I agree the guy was a jerk, but on what grounds can a LEO require him to show a receipt. I would think WalMart would have to accuse him of theft first. Wouldn't it be incumbent on WalMart to prove he stole something and not on the customer to prove he didn't.

[gljjt]

This is really not applicable as it was a police officer that was asking for the receipt, not a mall security officer. (plus the guy was being a jerk overall.)

Yeah, no one on hear would ever be a jerk. :eyeroll:

I wasn't trying to say it was exact but I thought it had some relevance

Not really. This topic is about security guards, and not police officers. The police officer in this case would have had the right to totally detain the individual and temporarily hold the items until the individual complied with showing the receipt. I personally would not have had near the patience with the guy that the officer did.

And, yeah, some people are jerks, even some of our forum members.

I agree the guy was a jerk, but on what grounds can a LEO require him to show a receipt. I would think WalMart would have to accuse him of theft first. Wouldn't it be incumbent on WalMart to prove he stole something and not on the customer to prove he didn't.

Unless Walmart said they saw him leave without paying, there is no reason to stop him. They didn't see him leave without paying as he eventually produced a receipt showing he paid. The cops were enforcing Walmart policy, not the law. The man was a jerk and could have handled it much better. He was looking for a confrontation but regardless of being a jerk should not have been required to produce a receipt for the cop unless Walmart thought he stole the merchandise, not just violated their receipt check policy.

[EEllis]

Unless Walmart said they saw him leave without paying, there is no reason to stop him. They didn't see him leave without paying as he eventually produced a receipt showing he paid. The cops were enforcing Walmart policy, not the law. The man was a jerk and could have handled it much better. He was looking for a confrontation but regardless of being a jerk should not have been required to produce a receipt for the cop unless Walmart thought he stole the merchandise, not just violated their receipt check policy.

The thing happened on Black Fri I believe and I assume things were most likely a bit chaotic. What I heard was that the store called police because they thought the guy was taking out stuff that he didn't buy. He was saying that he did buy the items but refused to allow anyone to see the recept. Waving a receipt than no one can read or tell what was purchased is not producing a receipt. The store shouldn't stop someone because they "think" they are stealing, or if they do and they are not stealing the store is seriously up the creek, but if a employee tells a cop that they "think" someone is stealing that does give police RS to stop the person and investigate.

[Right2Carry]

Looks like the officers were on shaky ground and unsure of their position. The guy was a jerk no question about that at all. This is certainly not the way to de-escalate a situation.

[Abraham]

The man was very upset because he'd paid for his merchandise and was then demanded to prove it.

The man was standing up for the principle of not having to prove he wasn't a thief. In this, I agree with him.

Could he have deflated the whole episode by showing the receipt upon demand?

Yes, but the principle of having to do so because Walmart says so and not the law, was the issue.

Why didn't the cops arrest him?

Because, as someone else pointed out, they knew they were on shaky ground by attempting to enforce Walmart policy - not law.

Had they been certain he was a thief, why didn't they just cuff and stuff him?

Not giving the receipt for the LEO to study was simply another point of principle.

Most people are meek and accepting when forced to go through pressure of receipt reconciling of goods. This was not Costco or Sams where you agree to go through this hoop, but like good little lambs they'll put up with essentially being called a thief and leap through Walmart hoops without complaint to prove otherwise.

Not everyone is willing to be to do this.

I don't think this man was a meek little lamb.

I also understand his rage.

What next?

Will we be demanded to go through this exercise at the grocery store before exiting?

I honestly think this sort of demand is on the increase. Walmart isn't the only store to pull this stunt and more people are going stand up to it.

I know I am.

Know this: "Whatever shoplifting/theft problems they have are theirs, not mine. Once money changes hands at the register, their merchandise becomes my personal property and I have no obligation to account for any of it to anyone." The above was not written by me, but I think it most eloquent.

[Abraham]

I neglected to add that one doesn't have to be rude in not cooperating with the receipt request bother.

It's simple enough to smile and pleasantly say no as you exit the store.

If, at that point you're harrassed, well that's what good lawyers are for...

Having said that, I've never sued anyone. I'm not the litigious type.

But, if I'm ever put in a situation like I outlined above, I'd be having my first experience of suing...

[EEllis]

I neglected to add that one doesn't have to be rude in not cooperating with the receipt request bother.

It's simple enough to smile and pleasantly say no as you exit the store.

If, at that point you're harrassed, well that's what good lawyers are for...

Having said that, I've never sued anyone. I'm not the litigious type.

But, if I'm ever put in a situation like I outlined above, I'd be having my first experience of suing...

The only problem with that is the cop could arrest you. When he tells you to stop you can't leave. Legally it is as if he placed hands on you. Reportedly LP, and a customer, both saw this gentleman put items in his cart then try to leave. LP called the cops and they wanted the guy to show a receipt. How is that harassed? Sure you don't have to comply with any private party and if they accuse or detain you wrongly then they are liable. But whats with all the drama? People steal, lots of them, and the store is trying to protect itself. Yeah it's a pain but it's not like we don't all know about it before hand. Spend your money somewhere else instead of trying to make everyones life harder so you can feel all righteous.

[Abraham]

EEllis,

You said: "Spend your money somewhere else instead of trying to make everyones life harder so you can feel all righteous."

Where did that come from?

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

How is expressing my opinion making everyone's life harder?

Huh?

You have the right to skip my posts, but not to chastise me. You're not a moderator. You're just a member, like me.

I don't think we're on the same page.

Perhaps, I wasn't clear enough.

I don't feel self righteous in the least, I'm just not willing to jump through hoops I don't have to. If don't mind doing so, well, I'm happy for you.

Plus, I would stop and go through the bother if a receipt was requested by an LEO, but not a store clerk. Not any longer.

Without going through a long winded response, I'll post this again:

"Whatever shoplifting/theft problems they have are theirs, not mine. Once money changes hands at the register, their merchandise becomes my personal property and I have no obligation to account for any of it to anyone."

[EEllis]

EEllis,

You said: "Spend your money somewhere else instead of trying to make everyones life harder so you can feel all righteous."

Where did that come from?

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

How is expressing my opinion making everyone's life harder?

Huh?

I was speaking about raising a fuss because someone dares ask you for a receipt. Pretending that a store trying to mitigate theft is some horrible outrage impinging on your civil rights or what have you. While I reference your post my comments are really not specificly directed to you but more the ideas you are trying to advocate. The Faux outrage for whatever reason is just getting so old.

You have the right to skip my posts, but not to chastise me. You're not a moderator. You're just a member, like me.

What you call chastising I call giving my opinion. I believe even non moderators are allowed that.

I don't think we're on the same page.

Perhaps, I wasn't clear enough.

I don't feel self righteous in the least, I'm just not willing to jump through hoops I don't have to. If don't mind doing so, well, I'm happy for you.

Plus, I would stop and go through the bother if a receipt was requested by an LEO, but not a store clerk. Not any longer.

Without going through a long winded response, I'll post this again:

"Whatever shoplifting/theft problems they have are theirs, not mine. Once money changes hands at the register, their merchandise becomes my personal property and I have no obligation to account for any of it to anyone."

If you know they are going to ask and you still go and refuse to follow general accepted behavior then I think there is something improper about your behavior. Plenty of other businesses don't check receipts. That's right you do whatever you want but I think people who are of your opinion that they should ignore receipt checks should not go to establishments that do such checks. They still don't have the right to stop you, but I would hope they would just ban you from the stores for not following they stores policy. Again you can do whatever you want I just believe it's wrong., impolite, way egocentric, however you want to describe it.

[Abraham]

EEllis,,

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

You said: "The Faux outrage for whatever reason is just getting so old.

That's rich, as you being one of the most constantly outraged posters on the forum. You're continual ranting about one thing or another is obviously something you take great joy in, but want to deny others the same fun.

Do yourself a favor, quit reading my posts."

They upset you and you don't need any more of that.

Or keep reading them, get worked up and post yourself a good rant.

Up to you!