Whole Foods in Lakewood (Dallas)-unenforceable 30.06

[C-dub]

There was this case. Ignore the author's ignorance and obvious bias.

http://kdhnews.com/news/charges-dismiss ... 0f31a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And our discussion here.
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... on+killeen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AlgoaAggie91]

Judges and juries always rule by the letter of the law. They never make decisions based on their own interpretation of what they believe to be the intent of the law or what they feel the law should be. (Sarcasm off)

Pretty sure that's why there is an appeals process...

[LDB415]

I wouldn't spend another penny with them after they posted those signs and shame on anyone who does! Their intent is clear and it isn't good or appropriate. Shame on them and shame on anyone who continues to shop with that chain.

[Cedar Park Dad]

As of this date, we really do not know if there is such a thing as an "unenforceable" 30.06 sign.

I also noticed that one of the doors pictured above have two opposing signs regarding the same issue...

We kind of do. If the sign does not meet the specs then the case will either be dropped or thrown out even if you get arrested.

Can you provide the case where this occurred? Our interpretation of the law doesn't make for case law, usually. Thanks.

Provide a case where someone wasn't prosecuted? Really? Look I don't want to be absolutist here because anything can happen but if the law says the letters have to be an inch high and they are not an inch high then you won't be prosecuted under 30.06. Why? Because they would lose rather embarrassingly or, if there was some court with a judge that far gone to allow a conviction, it would be overturned on appeal. The language is pretty clear and while you can argue about what colors are contrasting it's hard to argue that 3/4 of an inch is an inch. A DA would have to be a blithering idiot to charge under such conditions. Heck even most blithering idiots would know better. These are cases where they bully you into taking a plea or drop it at the last min if you refuse. They wouldn't take it to trial so .......

Judges and juries always rule by the letter of the law. They never make decisions based on their own interpretation of what they believe to be the intent of the law or what they feel the law should be. (Sarcasm off)

Further even if assuming correct, that measn you've still: 1) been arrested; 2) out money for bail; 3) may be out your pistol; 4) had to pay massive legal fees and time off. Yargh no thanks.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Judges and juries always rule by the letter of the law. They never make decisions based on their own interpretation of what they believe to be the intent of the law or what they feel the law should be. (Sarcasm off)

Pretty sure that's why there is an appeals process...

You know how much an appeal costs?

[jmra]

Judges and juries always rule by the letter of the law. They never make decisions based on their own interpretation of what they believe to be the intent of the law or what they feel the law should be. (Sarcasm off)

Pretty sure that's why there is an appeals process...

If you can afford it.

[srothstein]

Judges and juries always rule by the letter of the law. They never make decisions based on their own interpretation of what they believe to be the intent of the law or what they feel the law should be. (Sarcasm off)

Pretty sure that's why there is an appeals process...

While I agree with your basic premise (you will win in the end), I disagree with the way you originally stated it (you won't be prosecuted). As others have said, it is going to be a long drawn out process. And, while the cost has been noted, what was skipped is that you may serve a full sentence in jail while waiting for the appeal.

I usually advise people to not ignore any sign, as they all may be prosecuted by a spiteful DA. I think you will win when it is the old gun busters sign, even at the first trial, but there is no guarantee. I have a lot of confidence in appellate judges following the exact law, but even that is not as clear-cut as it could be. So, know the law, know the possible consequences, and make an informed decision for your self.

[OldCannon]

Same sign at Whole Foods in the Domain in Austin.

Whole Foods will never see a penny from me again. Not that they ever made much money from me in the first place.

[ScottDLS]

Judges and juries always rule by the letter of the law. They never make decisions based on their own interpretation of what they believe to be the intent of the law or what they feel the law should be. (Sarcasm off)

Pretty sure that's why there is an appeals process...

While I agree with your basic premise (you will win in the end), I disagree with the way you originally stated it (you won't be prosecuted). As others have said, it is going to be a long drawn out process. And, while the cost has been noted, what was skipped is that you may serve a full sentence in jail while waiting for the appeal.

I usually advise people to not ignore any sign, as they all may be prosecuted by a spiteful DA. I think you will win when it is the old gun busters sign, even at the first trial, but there is no guarantee. I have a lot of confidence in appellate judges following the exact law, but even that is not as clear-cut as it could be. So, know the law, know the possible consequences, and make an informed decision for your self.

Ah, the proverbial "test case" and "taking the ride". Which is why I take concealment seriously. They're going to have to catch you not breaking the law to prosecute you... So unless you have to use your handgun (in which case the 30.06 will be a minor consideration), it's unlikely to ever become an issue.

[cb1000rider]

Pretty sure that's why there is an appeals process...

Correct. I'm 99.5% certain that if you throw enough money at it (lawyers) and appeal it enough times, eventually they'll get it right.

The problem, for me... And probably for most of the people on this forum:
1) You got arrested. That record is going to stick around no matter what you do. And trust me, for some employers that's a dis-qualifier right there. Shouldn't be, but it often is. That in and of itself can cost a *lot* of money over a lifetime in loss of opportunity.
2) For many employment opportunities, licenses, heck maybe even for some financial transactions, you can be asked if you were ever "arrested". That arrest provides a lot of jeopardy regardless of outcome.
3) The arrest is punishment in and of itself. You're going to jail. You'll be there for a while - could be hours, could be days. To get out, you can either plead guilty and pay a fine or you can often pay a bond and set a trial date. Some places, if you choose "not guilty" you may have to sit in jail for a few more days.
4) You get to hire an attorney. Sure, if you can't afford one, one may be appointed to you. However, often you'll get charged for that attorney too. (Not kidding)
5) The cost of the attorney and fighting it will vastly exceed what it would have cost to pay the penalty and accept a guilty verdict. That is, you're punished more if you fight. You lose either way.
6) If you fight and eventually win, you've got a record of the arrest and being charged. For another.. well probably thousands and thousands of dollars, you can pay to have it all expunged.
7) After getting your record expunged on something that you were found innocent on, it'll likely still show up on criminal background checks for decades anyway..

Police officers know these things. They're also not law makers, nor are they law experts. Not knowing that the letters have to be at least 1" - well, my guess is that's not exactly a career ending false arrest... I'm saying that there probably isn't a lot of downside there if they incorrectly arrested someone.

[cb1000rider]

Same sign at Whole Foods in the Domain in Austin.
Whole Foods will never see a penny from me again. Not that they ever made much money from me in the first place.

Whole foods is doing pretty well.
Does anyone actually have any data on CHL demographics, particularly income? I don't know of any direct link, but it'd be interesting to show Whole Foods that they're excluding what might be the very set of customers that they're looking to attract... Guns ain't cheap...

[jmoney]

Whole foods can care less if they affect the gun-community, they make plenty of money.

That lakewood location where you took the picture had a shooting in the parking lot earlier this year. I'm glad to see they have taken such a proactive step to ensure the safety of their customers

[LDB415]

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG a shooting in the parking lot? OMG OMG OMG OMG I'm sure it was associated with and due to a legal CHL holder being on the premises, unknown to everyone else of course since they were concealed. But you can be certain some dumber than a box of rocks leftists will make the claim and associate it with legitimate honest citizens. There may even be a few members here who do the same.

[Purplehood]

As of this date, we really do not know if there is such a thing as an "unenforceable" 30.06 sign.

I also noticed that one of the doors pictured above have two opposing signs regarding the same issue...

They are not opposing signs. The TABC sign does not authorize licensed carry at the location, it prohibits 'unlicensed' possession of a handgun.

A 30.06 sign and a TABC sign? That seems diametrically opposed to me.

[Mel]

A 30.06 sign and a TABC sign? That seems diametrically opposed to me.

I don't see them as directly opposing. The 30.06 sign says that licensed guns are prohibited.
The "blue" TABC sigs says that unlicensed guns are prohibited. It says nothing about licensed guns.
The "blue" sign is required anywhere alcohol for off premisses consumption is sold. The 30.06 sign is optional.