What could I have done if this situation went south?

[OCH]

What could you have done if this situation went south?
(A) You could have ended up in the morgue.
(B) You could have ended up in the hospital.
(C) You could have ended up in jail.
(D) B and C

[killerfly128]

What could you have done if this situation went south?
(A) You could have ended up in the morgue.
(B) You could have ended up in the hospital.
(C) You could have ended up in jail.
(D) B and C

[The Annoyed Man]

That being said, "Farmer Bob" probably should have stayed in his home and called the police himself.

[devil's advocate] If ''Farmer Bob'' is far enough out in the sticks the response time might be so great that being proactive is more effictive than waiting on PD. [\devil's advocate]

True. I guess I am coming from this angle: he is not in immediate danger, doesn't know who is outside (assuming its a bad guy - how many, are they armed, etc.), has the tactical advantage, and it would help him in any legal case were he to have to shoot. If it were to turn into a situation where he drew a weapon, he would still have to call the police anyways.

That being said, if I were "Farmer Bob", and I sensed someone had car trouble, I would consider offering some assistance (to make sure nobody is hurt, my property isn't damaged, etc.). Who knows what Bob was thinking.

FWIW, Farmer Bob might have been worried about someone stealing his goats, or maybe even at first that a bobcat had gotten into the chickens........since the dog woke him up and he didn't know what was going on until he took a look outside. Heck, if I lived far enough out in the sticks, I might have left the house with a shotgun to go check on the barn. That said, once it became apparent that the source of the dog's ruckus was a car down at the end of the driveway, then yes, he should have stayed at the house and called 911.

[poppo]

Heck, if I lived far enough out in the sticks, I might have left the house with a shotgun to go check on the barn. That said, once it became apparent that the source of the dog's ruckus was a car down at the end of the driveway, then yes, he should have stayed at the house and called 911.

I don't think it's that simple. A car is parked down the driveway. You have no way of knowing how many occupants it has. For all you know they could be getting ready to surround the house and who knows what comes next. And calling 911 is a crap shoot. Someone could be there in 10 minutes or 60 (where I live). I personally would prefer to go and check it out myself. I know my property better than a trespasser. Of course every situation might be different, but sitting in the house waiting for a LEO to show up may not be the best option. Heck, I have my own fire pump/hoses because I know my house would be smoldering embers long before the FD ever showed up.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Heck, I have my own fire pump/hoses because I know my house would be smoldering embers long before the FD ever showed up.

interesting side point: how's that set up, er set up?

[The Annoyed Man]

Heck, if I lived far enough out in the sticks, I might have left the house with a shotgun to go check on the barn. That said, once it became apparent that the source of the dog's ruckus was a car down at the end of the driveway, then yes, he should have stayed at the house and called 911.

I don't think it's that simple. A car is parked down the driveway. You have no way of knowing how many occupants it has. For all you know they could be getting ready to surround the house and who knows what comes next. And calling 911 is a crap shoot. Someone could be there in 10 minutes or 60 (where I live). I personally would prefer to go and check it out myself. I know my property better than a trespasser. Of course every situation might be different, but sitting in the house waiting for a LEO to show up may not be the best option. Heck, I have my own fire pump/hoses because I know my house would be smoldering embers long before the FD ever showed up.

We've had this topic come up a number of times over the years. It's like 9mm vs .45 and Boxers vs Briefs debates. The one consistent thing in these threads has been that those members who are actually security consultants pretty much all tell you to stay in the house. It is the more tactically sound suggestion. You yourself raised one of the problems with going outside..... although you didn't mean to...... and that is that you DON'T know how many bad guys there are, or where they are if there are more than one.....

Let's say you step out to investigate, and take a walk around the outside of the house to make sure everything is clear. When you come back to your door to reenter, can you say with absolute certainty that an unknown bad guy didn't sneak into your house while you were outside around the other side of the building? Truthfully, you cannot. So now, you might be in the untenable position of having to fight your way back into the protected location you should have never left, and the bad guy now has all the tactical advantage........especially if he has an accomplice following you into the structure. And let's not mention the possibility that the first guy into your house is now holding your wife and kids hostage.

Short of burning you out, bad guys cannot touch you as long as you hold the inside of the home. You have the tactical advantage. You have cover, not just concealment. A solid brick wall with a drywall interior is going to stop nearly any handgun bullet, all shotgun projectiles, and quite a few smaller caliber rifle bullets. They, on the other hand, have to approach your home while exposed crossing a kill-box (if you've done your homework right). At best (for them), they have concealment like bushes, etc., but no cover. You, on the hand, get to shoot out windows from behind hard cover.

Even if help was a long ways away, you'd still be better off staying inside. You have food and water. The bad guys do not. Even the climate works against them........ If it is freezing cold outside, they are cold and you are toasty warm. If it is brutally hot and humid outside, you are cool and comfortable inside while they swelter and sweat in the heat. If you've mounted motion sensitive lights outside, you can turn off the inside lights and see them while they cannot see you.

There are caveats. If you have positively identified the intruder as a predatory varmint of the 4-legged kind, then go out and do what you have to do. It is fairly safe to assume that no big cat is going to linger with a half-dozen men wandering around outside, so if there's a mountain lion outside checking out your goat pen, there is likely not going to be bad guys around.

There are other options. You can mount remote cameras and two-way mic/speakers at your gate. If people are congregated down there, you can speak to them remotely and find out what they want. You can set up lights to bath that area in flood lights while turning off all the lights around the house, thereby isolating them and hiding you. Etc., etc., etc.

The thing is, if it is your property, you have the right to defend it any way you can, as long as it is within the law. (Firing off Claymore mines at your driveway entrance will likely not get you no-billed.....) And certainly it is galling to feel like you're "doing nothing". But sometimes, "nothing" is exactly the smart and right thing to do, if the alternative is to dive in headfirst where angels fear to tread. And defending your castle from the inside isn't exactly "doing nothing".

Now, if there were more adult men in the home besides me (my 24 year old sharpshooter son, for instance) and someone could stay behind inside while 2 or 3 went outside and tried to flank the trespassers, that would be another thing entirely. But if it is just you, and maybe your wife and child, then you are best served by remaining in the house.

[J.R.@A&M]

I agree with the comments about about not approaching somebody's home, especially a rural home, at night. When I was young I once did so, asking directions to so 'n so's ranch . I was (naively) surprised to see the homeowner step out on his porch holding a 1911. Now that i'm older I can put myself in his shoes and would probably do the same thing -- no, actually I would just have the 1911, not step out on the porch.

[TexasCajun]

I've previously given this type of scenario a good 'what-ifing'. And not much in this thread has raised any new thoughts or observations. So here is my plan, would the need ever arise.

Get my car stopped & off the road as much as possible.
Set up reflectors from my emergency kit.
Call the police to let them know what happened & follow their instructions.
Find a ride home or to some place to spend the night.

If there's no other option than pulling onto someone's property, then I stay at my car until the police arrive & let them handle waking/informing the property owner of the situation. If the property owner come out to investigate, then I calmly explain what happened & that the police are on the way while keeping my hands visible and making no sudden moves.

[SQLGeek]

I'd so similar as Texas Cajun but I'd call AAA for a tow and ride home with them.

[TomsTXCHL]

The flaw in all y'all's plans is the cell phone. There are an awful lot of no-coverage areas where I live. I suppose what I would do is to walk until I had coverage, or found some sort of "friendly" lit-up place if my phone were dead e.g. battery.

[Excaliber]

Heck, if I lived far enough out in the sticks, I might have left the house with a shotgun to go check on the barn. That said, once it became apparent that the source of the dog's ruckus was a car down at the end of the driveway, then yes, he should have stayed at the house and called 911.

I don't think it's that simple. A car is parked down the driveway. You have no way of knowing how many occupants it has. For all you know they could be getting ready to surround the house and who knows what comes next. And calling 911 is a crap shoot. Someone could be there in 10 minutes or 60 (where I live). I personally would prefer to go and check it out myself. I know my property better than a trespasser. Of course every situation might be different, but sitting in the house waiting for a LEO to show up may not be the best option. Heck, I have my own fire pump/hoses because I know my house would be smoldering embers long before the FD ever showed up.

We've had this topic come up a number of times over the years. It's like 9mm vs .45 and Boxers vs Briefs debates. The one consistent thing in these threads has been that those members who are actually security consultants pretty much all tell you to stay in the house. It is the more tactically sound suggestion. You yourself raised one of the problems with going outside..... although you didn't mean to...... and that is that you DON'T know how many bad guys there are, or where they are if there are more than one.....

Let's say you step out to investigate, and take a walk around the outside of the house to make sure everything is clear. When you come back to your door to reenter, can you say with absolute certainty that an unknown bad guy didn't sneak into your house while you were outside around the other side of the building? Truthfully, you cannot. So now, you might be in the untenable position of having to fight your way back into the protected location you should have never left, and the bad guy now has all the tactical advantage........especially if he has an accomplice following you into the structure. And let's not mention the possibility that the first guy into your house is now holding your wife and kids hostage.

Short of burning you out, bad guys cannot touch you as long as you hold the inside of the home. You have the tactical advantage. You have cover, not just concealment. A solid brick wall with a drywall interior is going to stop nearly any handgun bullet, all shotgun projectiles, and quite a few smaller caliber rifle bullets. They, on the other hand, have to approach your home while exposed crossing a kill-box (if you've done your homework right). At best (for them), they have concealment like bushes, etc., but no cover. You, on the hand, get to shoot out windows from behind hard cover.

Even if help was a long ways away, you'd still be better off staying inside. You have food and water. The bad guys do not. Even the climate works against them........ If it is freezing cold outside, they are cold and you are toasty warm. If it is brutally hot and humid outside, you are cool and comfortable inside while they swelter and sweat in the heat. If you've mounted motion sensitive lights outside, you can turn off the inside lights and see them while they cannot see you.

There are caveats. If you have positively identified the intruder as a predatory varmint of the 4-legged kind, then go out and do what you have to do. It is fairly safe to assume that no big cat is going to linger with a half-dozen men wandering around outside, so if there's a mountain lion outside checking out your goat pen, there is likely not going to be bad guys around.

There are other options. You can mount remote cameras and two-way mic/speakers at your gate. If people are congregated down there, you can speak to them remotely and find out what they want. You can set up lights to bath that area in flood lights while turning off all the lights around the house, thereby isolating them and hiding you. Etc., etc., etc.

The thing is, if it is your property, you have the right to defend it any way you can, as long as it is within the law. (Firing off Claymore mines at your driveway entrance will likely not get you no-billed.....) And certainly it is galling to feel like you're "doing nothing". But sometimes, "nothing" is exactly the smart and right thing to do, if the alternative is to dive in headfirst where angels fear to tread. And defending your castle from the inside isn't exactly "doing nothing".

Now, if there were more adult men in the home besides me (my 24 year old sharpshooter son, for instance) and someone could stay behind inside while 2 or 3 went outside and tried to flank the trespassers, that would be another thing entirely. But if it is just you, and maybe your wife and child, then you are best served by remaining in the house.

TAM is exactly correct - If the defender stays inside the defended space he has all the advantages (the military gives it a 10:1 in favor of the defender), and the attacker has all the disadvantages.

If the defender exits the defended space the attacker becomes the defender in his space if he simply stays still behind cover or concealment until the hapless former defender comes into his field of fire.

Unless the attacker does something stupid like moving around or making noise, there is a very low likelihood the former defender will detect him in time to avoid becoming food.

In the case described in the OP, if the OP and his companions had ill intent, Farmer Bob would most likely have been in a world of hurt.

If there is more than one attacker (as is often the case in rural crimes) things go further downhill from there.

[CHLLady]

Personally, I think I would have stayed away from the house and left your note on the truck somewhere (under the windshield wiper?). Maybe even called the local law enforcement and told them what was up in case the property owner called them in the morning. As a property owner I'd be a little leery of someone parked at the end of my driveway at night but even more so if they approached close enough to the house to get the dog started.

Otherwise I suppose I'd have done more or less what you did: keep my hands in sight and try to be as non-threatening as possible. Maybe offer to show him some sort of identification or give him your contact information in case he has any concerns about when you're moving the truck? But mostly I'd just have stayed away from the house to begin with. You approach someone's house out in the country when it's clear everyone's in bed for the night and I think you're going to create suspicion regardless of the situation. He's got his family in the house, and his crops and/or livestock out in the fields or outbuildings, and he doesn't want to take any chances. For all he knows, you're idiots who wanted to go cow tipping -- that can cause some serious damage to a cow. In his situation I don't imagine I'd go back to bed until you were gone, although I'd try to be polite about it.

I agree 100% with this. Country life is much different than city life, going through the fence onto someone's property is never a good idea.