Employer Wants To Know About Firearms/CHL

[scottmeador]

All around not a fun thing to go through. As of tomorrow I am starting leave to care for my wife and newborn daughter. I was threatened with suspension, termination and possible withdrawl of my leave request if I did not fill out and sign the surveys. Documentation is safely hidden away and I will be taking care of this when my leave is over.

[mojo84]

Sorry to hear this. Hopefully you can do some research while on leave.

[gljjt]

I disagree. And I think you meant 1(b). However, a CHL is not a protected activity. It is just not illegal to carry with a CHL. Smoking in public is not illegal, but an employer can have smoking policies.

Also see this;

From the CHL law, Texas Government Code 411

Sec. 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS. This subchapter does not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business. In this section, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

I think the courts would allow reasonable inquiries of employees to ascertain compliance with a policy consistent with this law.

Yes, I meant 1(b). I have fat fingers, and my laptop apparently doesn't have fat keys.

CHL is protected to the extent that it is not only legally available to those who qualify (we are a SHALL issue state), but the law proactively protects the identities of CHL holders from non-LEO queries. Just because a corporation asks, and not a private individual, or a reporter, that does not make the requrest any more likely to be answered. The law is clear. The requrest must come from an LEO or some other link in the chain of justice. That specifically excludes corporations. I see no conflict with 411.203. An employer has a right to bar CHLs from carrying into/onto the premises; and a CHL is bound by law to comply with written company policy if it gives the CHL holder proper notice and/or if they post 30.06 signage; but the law does NOT give employers an automatic right to know who has a CHL, and who does not. If they want to keep CHLs out, they can follow the law just like we have to follow the law. They can ask the question until they are blue in the face, but I am not required by law to answer it truthfully, and absent the state giving them the information, they'll never know.

Yes, I will lie to protect my rights. I would lie on their forms, and I would lie if asked in person. What are they going to do? They can suspect I am lying, but they can't prove it. They can fire me for something else, even something trumped up, but they will have to do so within the law. If they do so wrongfully in terms of Texas employment law and I can prove it, then I can retire early.....and the way to prove it is to always insist on your right to have an up to date copy of everyting in your employee file. But they can't fire me for having a CHL or for lying on the form, because they cannot know that I have one unless I tell them.

TAM says he would lie on the forms and lie in person. I would do the same. The one thing I wouldn't do is go on a public forum with my dilemma using my real name and place of employment!

[jmra]

I disagree. And I think you meant 1(b). However, a CHL is not a protected activity. It is just not illegal to carry with a CHL. Smoking in public is not illegal, but an employer can have smoking policies.

Also see this;

From the CHL law, Texas Government Code 411

Sec. 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS. This subchapter does not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business. In this section, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

I think the courts would allow reasonable inquiries of employees to ascertain compliance with a policy consistent with this law.

Yes, I meant 1(b). I have fat fingers, and my laptop apparently doesn't have fat keys.

CHL is protected to the extent that it is not only legally available to those who qualify (we are a SHALL issue state), but the law proactively protects the identities of CHL holders from non-LEO queries. Just because a corporation asks, and not a private individual, or a reporter, that does not make the requrest any more likely to be answered. The law is clear. The requrest must come from an LEO or some other link in the chain of justice. That specifically excludes corporations. I see no conflict with 411.203. An employer has a right to bar CHLs from carrying into/onto the premises; and a CHL is bound by law to comply with written company policy if it gives the CHL holder proper notice and/or if they post 30.06 signage; but the law does NOT give employers an automatic right to know who has a CHL, and who does not. If they want to keep CHLs out, they can follow the law just like we have to follow the law. They can ask the question until they are blue in the face, but I am not required by law to answer it truthfully, and absent the state giving them the information, they'll never know.

Yes, I will lie to protect my rights. I would lie on their forms, and I would lie if asked in person. What are they going to do? They can suspect I am lying, but they can't prove it. They can fire me for something else, even something trumped up, but they will have to do so within the law. If they do so wrongfully in terms of Texas employment law and I can prove it, then I can retire early.....and the way to prove it is to always insist on your right to have an up to date copy of everyting in your employee file. But they can't fire me for having a CHL or for lying on the form, because they cannot know that I have one unless I tell them.

TAM says he would lie on the forms and lie in person. I would do the same. The one thing I wouldn't do is go on a public forum with my dilemma using my real name and place of employment!

Google can be a double edged sword.

[TexasGal]

Googling your employees has become a favorite tool for human resource departments everywhere. And nothing done on office owned computers or spoken of over company phones can be considered private.

[remington79]

Any updates?

[Redneck_Buddha]

About 18 months ago, I turned down a job who said that I needed to give them my Facebook, LinkedIn, and other social networking passwords. I clarified the requirement with the HR woman and involuntarily laughed in her face when she told me I understood the requirement correctly. The very tightly niched position is still open.

[TexasGal]

I am seeing more of a benefit to being a old fogey and having no such accounts. Now, if they ask for my Pinterest and gun forum identities, I may have to get up and leave.

[Captain Matt]

Any updates?

They would be foolish to do anything official while he's on paternity leave.

[scottmeador]

Any updates?

They would be foolish to do anything official while he's on paternity leave.

Or saying anymore against the advice of counsel.

[5thGenTexan]

Google precisely why my screen name says nothing identifiable about me.

[Deltaboy]

Sad to see this nonsense now days.

[Venus Pax]

Thank you, Charles, for taking this issue to Austin.

[jimlongley]

About 18 months ago, I turned down a job who said that I needed to give them my Facebook, LinkedIn, and other social networking passwords. I clarified the requirement with the HR woman and involuntarily laughed in her face when she told me I understood the requirement correctly. The very tightly niched position is still open.

I'll take that job, they can have my (current) passwords, but they also change regularly, and I wonder if they want to put up with my paranoid tendencies changing passwords every few hours.

[thetexan]

In the quest to "care for our employees" my employer is forcing everyone to electronically submit "Medical History" and "Domestic Assessment" surveys consisting of the following areas:

What really gets me is some of the questions on the "Domestic Assessment"

"Do you own or have access to firearms?
"Do you take part in activities with firearms or other dangerous weapons? "
"Do you or your partner possess a Concealed Handgun License issued by your state of residence?"

Contact information for personal physician.
Cardiac/Pulmonary history
Respiratory history
Psychiatric history
Current biometrics
Current medications
Surgical history
Vision history
DME usage
Vaccination history
Food allergies
Allergies NOS
Narrative on diet and exercise habits
Tobacco usage history

I can understand some of this history being required for those involved directly in patient care (of which I am not).

At the end of each survey it states:

"Acknowledgment

I acknowledge that I have a continuing responsibility to keep my employer informed of any health condition that may affect my ability to perform the essential functions of my job. This may include, but is not limited to: unusual stress, physical injury or impairment, back, neck or muscle strain or pain, any infectious disease, and/or any condition that may make me susceptible to infection.

By my signature, I certify that the statements made on this health history are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and hereby grant ****** permission to verify such answers. I understand that any false statement may be considered sufficient case for withdrawal of job offer or for dismissal, if such false statement is discovered after I begin employment.

164) This health history once received becomes the property of <company name> and is retained as part of my permanent health file within Employee Health Services. The employee health record will be accessible to persons with a need to know as permitted by law in cases where the employee put his/her health at issue as it relates to his/her job (i.e., lawsuit, worker’s compensation claim, ADA accommodation request, disability claim, fitness for duty evaluation, etc.).

I expressly request <company name> to proceed with the cost free TB skin test, lab and x-ray examinations with the understanding that any follow-up exams or consultations, if required, as a condition of employment or treatment for a problem that occurred as a result of the assessment, will be provided by my physician at my expense. I acknowledge that Texas law provides if any health care worker is exposed to my blood or other bodily fluid, the Hospital may perform tests, without my consent, on my blood to determine the presence of hepatitis B and C and HIV. I understand that such testing is necessary and I understand that the results of tests done under these circumstances are confidential.

I further understand and acknowledge that as a condition of my continued employment with THR, annual TB screening and mask fit evaluations are required and it is my responsibility to schedule with Employee Health.

I hereby certify that I am 18 years of age or older, OR I am the legal guardian of the minor participating in this program. I certify I have carefully read the Personal Health Survey questions, and that I understand them and that the information given is complete, true and accurate to the best of my knowledge. TYPE YOUR NAME BELOW. THIS CONSTITUTES AN ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE THAT IS REQUIRED BY LAW. *"


The completion of these surveys is mandatory (all questions) and must be fully truthful, upon the pain of punishment up to an including termination. The company reserves the right to verify any and all information by any means legally possible.

My take is that it is none of their business as to whether I own or have access to firearms, have a CHL (our facilities are 30.06 posted so I follow that to keep my job). My personal health history is between me my family and my physician.
There are at least 6 other team mate who also have a CHL and have expressed the same concerns.

So my questions are:

1) Would there be any way for an employer to query the DPS regarding an employee's CHL status?
2) Can anyone provide a referral for counsel that may be able to assist with at least the firearms related questions?
3) General thoughts from other forum members regarding this (beyond "You ought to find another job).

Thanks

It' s just me but I would never work for a place that required my private info even if it is a requirement of Obamacare or the local establishment. However, if you must work there and the questions are required for your specific job duty then this is how I would answer them.

"Do you own or have access to firearms? Contact my attorney for that information at 555-555-5555
"Do you take part in activities with firearms or other dangerous weapons? " Contact my attorney for that information at 555-555-5555
"Do you or your partner possess a Concealed Handgun License issued by your state of residence?" Contact my attorney for that information at 555-555-5555

Contact information for personal physician. My attorney has all of that information for you if you can convince him to give it to you.
Cardiac/Pulmonary history Confidential
Respiratory history Confidential
Psychiatric history Confidential
Current biometrics Do you mean am I white or black or indian? irrelevant
Current medications Confidential
Surgical history Confidential
Vision history Confidential
DME usage Confidential "by the way, what is DME?"
Vaccination history Confidential
Food allergies Confidential
Allergies NOS Yes, to nosy, employers who don't mind their own business
Narrative on diet and exercise habits Confidential
Tobacco usage history Confidential

they will either fire me or discriminate against me. Then I have standing to take legal action and pursue a remedy. But first I would make sure that they do not actually have legal authority to get the info. I might have to just say, no thanks, my privacy trumps my need for the job.

tex