A cuationary tale, with an ask for help... LONG!

[el_chupo_]

So, it is with great embarrassment that I bring this one to you today... This is long, Sorry about the book...

About 10 days ago the wife and I went up to a city in Oklahoma to see a concert. Booked a hotel room, got there and checked in. Knowing the concert was at a small venue with a lot of alcohol served, I decided to leave the pistol in the hotel room, a couple miles from the venue.

Concert was fantastic, got back and went to bed. Got up the next morning and went to the zoo, checked out some motorcycles, and headed home.

Now, at this point my understanding was the gun was either in my bag, or had been moved up to the glove box. I neglected to read up on where you can/cannot carry with a CHL, so I didnt bother with it for the zoo, or the drive back home. This is a pocket pistol in a small holster, and I dont like to have it in my pocket when driving for hours and hours.

At this point I should also tell you this is not my regular carry gun, it is a back-up/"truck gun" that I often leave in the glove box/center console so that I have it with me if I am out but not carrying (cannot carry at work, etc. so I can put this in a pocket if I go somewhere after work, and have something during travel), so as far as I was concerned, it was in the correct spot. Yes, I know the risks of keeping a gun in a vehicle. It is kept in the vehicle I drive daily, locked and alarmed every where I go, carried occasionally, etc.

This has bit me once before, when my truck was broken into at work and the gun was stolen, this was its replacement. I am aware of the risks that this practice involves, and have taken certain precautions to include things like lockable cases, Console Vaults, etc.

So a few days ago I went to get it out of the vehicle, and it wasnt there. So I went in and asked the wife where she had moved it to when we got home, and she said she hadnt touched it.

Panic quickly ensued. I went to the bags we had taken on the trip, no dice. More panic. Then it hit me - the hotel... So I called them up, and the confirmed that it had been found on the floor, under some blankets, apparently dropped out of a bag. A tiny bit of hope sprung up!

Me: I was there on these dates, room XXX
Them: Yes, we did find that.
Me: When can I come pick it up?
Them: We turned it into the police
Me: I understand.
Them: It was loaded!
Me: Well, yeah. Its a carry pistol.
Them: We had a guy leave 100 rds of ARMOR PIERCING bullets once. Dont know what happened with him, but our policy is we turn those in.
Me: I understand. I appreciate the help and you getting that to the police, and I am sorry about the situation it has caused.
Them: No problem, have a great day.

So, I look up the local PD, get the property room number, and call them the next business day when they are open.

Me: Hello, apparently my gun was left at a hotel room, fell out of a bag or purse. They said they had turned it in, I was wondering how I could claim it and when I could pick it up?
Them: Do you have a property room ticket number?
Me: Nope, the hotel didnt have that information.
Them: What about the serial number?
Me: Sure, its XXXXXXXXX
Them: OK, I do show we have that item, can you describe it?
Me: Sure, its this gun, this caliber, in this holster, loaded with these rounds, etc.
Them: Yes, we do have that. What was your name?
Me: My name is El_Chupo_
Them: Thats not the name we have for this gun.
Me: Thats odd. Do you have Mrs. El_chupo_ listed?
Them: Nope
Me: Well, I bought this from Cabelas, from the used counter. You must have the original owner if you did a serial number trace.
Them: Do you have proof of purchase?
Me: I bought it a few years ago, I dont have the receipt.
Them: Then you will need to go to a property hearing to prove ownership.
Me: Didnt the hotel tell you who was in the room?
Them: Yes, but it isnt you either.
Me: That makes no sense. Ill call them.
Them: Have a great day.
Me: You too.


So I did that. They stated they would call in to let them know what had happened, and that it was mine, got the message late in the day, after the Property room closed.
Went to Cabelas on the way home, we were able to find the gun room system to print off the record of the gun going to me. Then the front desk printed off their system history that had the transaction listed.

I am feeling pretty good, have proof of purchase now.

So I called back today.

Them: Property room (different person)
Me: Here is the serial number, here is the situation.
Them: OK, with that you will need to show proof of ownership.
Me: I have the proof of ownership from Cabelas, and listed the above.
Them: With that, you will have to speak with Detective XXXXXXX. Here is the number, the and your property ID. Ill transfer you over.
Me: Thanks!

Them: This is Detective XXXXXXX. Leave a message at the beep.
Me: Hey Detective, here is the situation, looking forward to hearing from you.


Then I got bored, so I called back again.
Them: Property room (same person from Monday)
Me: Hi, its me again. Same situation.
Them: OK, did you speak with the officer that picked up the gun from the hotel?
Me: No, I havent. I have talked to the hotel, they called in to explain that it was left by me, and that I had filed the report with them as well.
Them: Hold on, let me talk to a supervisor.
Me: OK...

Them: OK, you will need to talk to the officer.
Me: I have proof of purchase, bought in 2011.
Them: (asks supervisor...) We have no way of knowing that you didnt sell it between now and then, I cannot do anything until you talk to the responding officer, or you will have to go through a property hearing.
Me: ...
Them: Have a great day.
Me: You too.



So that is where I sit. It is in another state, at a PD that wont let me prove that I bought it. They have told me that even if I do, I have to go through a background check, and I would have a few days to pick it up afterwards. Then they said no, you cannot show your proof of purchase. I am about ready to chalk this up as a lesson learned, but I dont want to give up yet. Frankly, the cost of the gun doesnt really bother me. It wasnt expensive, it is easily replaceable, and nobody stole the gun, it was not used in a crime, no one got hurt. I can swallow the pill of my stupidity, and pay the cost.

But the PD is kind of me off. "We dont know if you sold it since the 3 years ago you bought it".... Well, how the heck do you think I know where the gun was, on what date, where it was found, the serial number, and that the hotel gave me the information and knows I was the one who left it? Use some common sense. run my background check, tell me to come get it, and I will drop everything, leave work, and be there in a few hours. Quit being stupid!

I cannot get ahold of the responding officer, he works an evening shift and is off until Friday. I have documents from Cabelas (and they said they would look into pulling the 4473 if needed), I have the CC statement for the purchase, and I have the hotel stating I was the one that rented the room it was in. What else do I need to do? What steps should I take, if any?

Oh yeah, dont just do the hotel walk through. Move all your bags, then double check and do the walk through again. And dont assume your spouse has taken care of things, ask that one last time before you leave the hotel parking lot.
Let me be the stupid one that has to deal with this crap.

[Wodathunkit]

Sorry El Chupo, but your story starts breaking down about the time you said "I went to Oklahoma"

Sorry for the headache your going through.

[Texsquatch]

Sounds like you need to do what they said repeatedly...go to the property hearing. You have proof of purchase, show them your hotel receipt that that should show the chain of custody up to the point that you left it behind. Shouldn't take a super sleuth to piece that together. I can see they're point, they're just following strict rules as can be expected.

[cb1000rider]

Not unique to Oklahoma. A family member was the victim of a burglary in Garland. Several rifles and shotguns were stolen - family owned arms, mainly hunting, but all of it was at least 30 years old.
Garland PD found the property. Garland PD returned then non-firearm items. They would not return the firearms. No "proof of purchase" and they cited that they were "evidence" in a case.
Apparently there is legal process for getting firearms back, but my understanding was that without serial numbers AND proof of purchase/registration, you couldn't really prove ownership. The firearms were never returned.

It's a situation that makes me want to "register my guns" in Texas, if there was such a thing...

[el_chupo_]

Appreciate it guys. As to the Oklahoma thing, its where I grew up, and besides, the concert was worth the trip. The rest, I dont know about...

Texsquatch - I dont have a problem going up for the hearing, if I can pick it up and head home. The round trip for me is about 600-650 miles, so the cost of gas and taking a day off work pretty much covers the cost of the gun. If I have to do that twice, or stay in a hotel overnight, I'm losing money to get it back. And with them telling me that I would have to do a background check that could take a few hours up to a few weeks, I am not too optimistic. I guess I will wait until Friday to contact the officer, or wait for a call from the Detective and see where that leads.

[el_chupo_]

Not unique to Oklahoma. A family member was the victim of a burglary in Garland. Several rifles and shotguns were stolen - family owned arms, mainly hunting, but all of it was at least 30 years old.
Garland PD found the property. Garland PD returned then non-firearm items. They would not return the firearms. No "proof of purchase" and they cited that they were "evidence" in a case.
Apparently there is legal process for getting firearms back, but my understanding was that without serial numbers AND proof of purchase/registration, you couldn't really prove ownership. The firearms were never returned.

It's a situation that makes me want to "register my guns" in Texas, if there was such a thing...

[Texsquatch]

I totally understand the mileage cost analysis. Half of me would want my gun back at all cost. The other half would be afraid that they're baiting me to come to the hearing just to get thrown in some Okie pokie for leaving a gun on the floor.

[jmra]

I would lick my wounds and move on.

[el_chupo_]

Got a call from the detective, and found out some new info.

First, I told her what I had to prove ownership, and she thinks it will be sufficient. Once she is satisfied, she sends a release notice to the property room, and I deal with their rules, which involves the background check and pickup. She said they might be able to let me fax in the info for the background check, but I have to discuss it with them. I will be emailing her scans of what I have.

Now the new part - She asked me if my wife had gone back to the hotel desk with her CHL to try to pick up the gun. I told her that we had headed over to OKC, then down to the DFW area, and that the wife wouldnt have gone in, I would have.

So now we have a third party that tried to claim the gun prior to the hotel getting the cops to pick it up. Not 100% on the order, of course, but that is what I understood from her.

My guess is a housekeeper or other employee may have called to tip off someone they knew to try to pick it up. Good news is, they didnt get it. But I am slightly more optimistic this afternoon.

[Target1911]

I wish you luck.

I always THOROUGHLY toss motel rooms before I leave. All blankets and pillows get a strong shake down.

[el_chupo_]

Well, more good news to report. The detective got back to me, the information I provided was sufficient that she is releasing it back to me. But the property room wont get it until Monday, and then I get to deal with them on the background check.

Fingers crossed that they let me provide info over the phone, and only make the trip twice. It wouldnt be a big deal if they were open on Friday, as I have that off. But M-Thur only, so we shall see how it goes...

[Dori]

If they didn't return the guns, I would have no choice but to report them stolen.

[ddstuder]

So, I look up the local PD, get the property room number, and call them the next business day when they are open.

Me: Hello, apparently my gun was left at a hotel room, fell out of a bag or purse. They said they had turned it in, I was wondering how I could claim it and when I could pick it up?
Them: Do you have a property room ticket number?
Me: Nope, the hotel didnt have that information.
Them: What about the serial number?
Me: Sure, its XXXXXXXXX
Them: OK, I do show we have that item, can you describe it?
Me: Sure, its this gun, this caliber, in this holster, loaded with these rounds, etc.
Them: Yes, we do have that. What was your name?
Me: My name is El_Chupo_
Them: Thats not the name we have for this gun.
Me: Thats odd. Do you have Mrs. El_chupo_ listed?
Them: Nope
Me: Well, I bought this from Cabelas, from the used counter. You must have the original owner if you did a serial number trace.
Them: Do you have proof of purchase?
Me: I bought it a few years ago, I dont have the receipt.
Them: Then you will need to go to a property hearing to prove ownership.
Me: Didnt the hotel tell you who was in the room?
Them: Yes, but it isnt you either.
Me: That makes no sense. Ill call them.
Them: Have a great day.
Me: You too.

Question.
I thought that the 4473 forms were only kept by the seller. How did the Okie PD know who's name was on the gun?

[Jumping Frog]

He said someone else had also tried to claim the gun. I assume that is the name the PD was referencing.

Basically, the property room was faced with conflicting claims so they asked for proof of ownership.

[el_chupo_]

I am not sure whose name they had, or why. My speculation is that they contacted Ruger -> Distributor -> Dealer from when the gun was new, and came up with a name that way. They would then have no way of knowing that person had sold it, or to contact Cabela's to find out I had bought it.

I did learn the persons name and location through a subsequent conversation, but that isnt important any more.