Why exactly does Texas not have open carry?

[03Lightningrocks]

OK guys, keep the discussions civil and on a business-like basis or this will be locked. We are tired of these open carry threads turning into finger pointing and shoving matches.

No problem. My apologies.

[poppo]

I am a proponent of open carry. I would not want to change 30.06 at all. I am for signage that would be vastly different and not related to 30.06 if someone wanted to prohibit OC in their business. I will OC regularly when it passes. That pretty much takes care of it. Thanks.

IMO it will not be that simple. If there was a different sign for OC, IMO we will see both going up where none existed before. Out of sight, out of mind works just fine. Once you have people complaining about OC (and they will complain), the signs will go up - both.

I'm also one who believes that the OC "fanatics" are the ones who do the most harm, and IF OC ever were to pass, they will be the ones who will ruin it for everyone.

[rockinar]

I oppose open carry. There's just no reason to other than to other than to say "look at me I have a gun don't mess with me!". The people who want to open carry are the CHL holders who pull out their gun if someone cuts them off in traffic. The hot head bravados that think they are John Wayne. The ONLY reason I think it's any good is because you can carry OWB (still concealed with a tshirt) and it would be much more comfortable and not worry as much about printing or the wind blowing your shirt up.

Even if open carry was passed, I would still keep it concealed. I don't want anyone to know I'm carrying and they don't need to know. It just attracts a bunch of attention I don't want. What they need to do is expand the law to eliminate any issues with CHL printing and accidental exposure. That way people could still carry comfortably OWB, the gun would still be concealed and everyone is happy. There's just no need to walk around with it totally exposed. Nothing good comes from that.

[jmra]

What they need to do is expand the law to eliminate any issues with CHL printing and accidental exposure.

You might want to look at the changes that went into effect Sep 1.

[03Lightningrocks]

What they need to do is expand the law to eliminate any issues with CHL printing and accidental exposure.

You might want to look at the changes that went into effect Sep 1.

Yeah. He is gonna be real happy!

[rockinar]

What they need to do is expand the law to eliminate any issues with CHL printing and accidental exposure.

You might want to look at the changes that went into effect Sep 1.

That does help some. But it's not exactly what I'm looking for. The law still basically say "its presence cannot be discernible through ordinary observation" as far as I am aware. Concealed still means concealed. In other words you can't be printing or be relaxed about concealment.

[jbarn]

NM

[jbarn]

What they need to do is expand the law to eliminate any issues with CHL printing and accidental exposure.

You might want to look at the changes that went into effect Sep 1.

That does help some. But it's not exactly what I'm looking for. The law still basically say "its presence cannot be discernible through ordinary observation" [/i]as far as I am aware. Concealed still means concealed. In other words you can't be printing or be relaxed about concealment.

The law that makes it an offense to display your handgun says none of that. The law says you commit a violation if you INTENTIONALLY display your handgun, in a public place, in plain view of another.

Intent is defined in the code, and it means it was our conscious objective to engage in the conduct or to cause the result.

An inadvertent flash or exposure of your handgun is not and never was a violation. The law says NOTHING about printing, whatever that means.

[Keith B]

What they need to do is expand the law to eliminate any issues with CHL printing and accidental exposure.

You might want to look at the changes that went into effect Sep 1.

That does help some. But it's not exactly what I'm looking for. The law still basically say "its presence cannot be discernible through ordinary observation" [/i]as far as I am aware. Concealed still means concealed. In other words you can't be printing or be relaxed about concealment.

The law that makes it an offense to display your handgun says none of that. The law says you commit a violation if you INTENTIONALLY display your handgun, in a public place, in plain view of another.

Intent is defined in the code, and it means it was our conscious objective to engage in the conduct or to cause the result.

An inadvertent flash or exposure of your handgun is not and never was a violation. The law says NOTHING about printing, whatever that means.

Actually, the Texas DPS website says it in their FAQs at http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/faqs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

33. What does concealed mean? Can I carry my handgun in plain view with my Concealed Handgun License (CHL)?
The weapon cannot be visible or discernible through ordinary observation. Texas Penal Code prohibits carrying the handgun in plain view. CHL holders may be subject to criminal charges for carrying a handgun in plain view.

It is also in the CHL government code

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(3) “Concealed handgun” means a handgun, the presence of which is
not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person

However, it is NOT the law. The penal code states 'intentionally displays', so that is what you would be charged by.

[Chris]

Mt coworker and I were at lunch during a class. He was open carrying, mine was concealed. Guess who got attention from people sitting at tables nearby? I just feel really vulnerable open carrying in Street clothes.

[jbarn]

What they need to do is expand the law to eliminate any issues with CHL printing and accidental exposure.

You might want to look at the changes that went into effect Sep 1.

That does help some. But it's not exactly what I'm looking for. The law still basically say "its presence cannot be discernible through ordinary observation" [/i]as far as I am aware. Concealed still means concealed. In other words you can't be printing or be relaxed about concealment.

The law that makes it an offense to display your handgun says none of that. The law says you commit a violation if you INTENTIONALLY display your handgun, in a public place, in plain view of another.

Intent is defined in the code, and it means it was our conscious objective to engage in the conduct or to cause the result.

An inadvertent flash or exposure of your handgun is not and never was a violation. The law says NOTHING about printing, whatever that means.

Actually, the Texas DPS website says it in their FAQs at http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/faqs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

33. What does concealed mean? Can I carry my handgun in plain view with my Concealed Handgun License (CHL)?
The weapon cannot be visible or discernible through ordinary observation. Texas Penal Code prohibits carrying the handgun in plain view. CHL holders may be subject to criminal charges for carrying a handgun in plain view.

It is also in the CHL government code

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(3) “Concealed handgun” means a handgun, the presence of which is
not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person

However, it is NOT the law. The penal code states 'intentionally displays', so that is what you would be charged by.

Yeah, I know. I was referring to the violation. Definitions in the government code are not applicable to the penal code unless the penal code specifically references the GC.

[jbarn]

Mt coworker and I were at lunch during a class. He was open carrying, mine was concealed. Guess who got attention from people sitting at tables nearby? I just feel really vulnerable open carrying in Street clothes.

Are you LE?

[Oldgringo]

OK guys, keep the discussions civil and on a business-like basis or this will be locked. We are tired of these open carry threads turning into finger pointing and shoving matches.

No problem. My apologies.

Heh heh....

[Oldgringo]

Mt coworker and I were at lunch during a class. He was open carrying, mine was concealed. Guess who got attention from people sitting at tables nearby? I just feel really vulnerable open carrying in Street clothes.

Mt coworker...? Open Carry is legal in Montana. So, who did get attention from nearby tables and why, do you think?

[cb1000rider]

The people who want to open carry are the CHL holders who pull out their gun if someone cuts them off in traffic. The hot head bravados that think they are John Wayne.

Funny, you say that... I support OC. I'm not going to take an AR to a public rally or to the mall. And I've been to states where OC works just fine. People aren't wearing gun-belts with ammo for the most part in those states.

I assure you, I'm not waving a gun if I'm cut off in traffic. And I'll bet that I get cut off a lot more than average while on a motorcycle... And when I'm cut off, it's a lot more dangerous.

I want OC so I can carry OWB, just like you mentioned... I don't want to do it in plain view, but I don't want to be required to wear a zipped coat in Texas.
I want OC so I don't have to worry about "printing" and associated legal costs. Let someone else make the case law. Yes, I understand the new laws.
I want OC so there might be a subtle means to say "I'm not a good target" without confronting anyone at all, maybe just by moving the shirt a little when you're being watched for a distance.
I don't want to worry about what might happen when I'm moving a rifle openly between vehicles in a public place.. A little more public acceptance of firearms would go a long way.
I want OC because I think it might help slow the erosion of the 2nd amendment - at least what is left of the 2nd amendment. If things continue, the value of the 2nd amendment will simply be to allow us to hide guns in our homes legally.