New way to treat wounds caused by a bullet!

[NavAir]

Sounds like a fancy tampon.

The SEALs carry tampons in their self-care medical kits to use exactly for this purpose. They are sterile, expand to quickly plug the hole, cheap, and widely available. I actually keep some in the first aid kit in the SUV (hopefully, I will never have to be a first responder on a gunshot wound, but at least I'll be prepared).

[WildBill]

Sounds like a fancy tampon.

The SEALS carry tampons in their self-care medical kits to use exactly for this purpose. They are sterile, expand to quickly plug the hole, cheap, and widely available. I actually keep some in the first aid kit in the SUV (hopefully, I will never have to be a first responder on a gunshot wound, but at least I'll be prepared).

I have read the same.

[The Annoyed Man]

The ONLY CURE for a GSW is a Surgeon. You can stuff things into a gun wound all day long and it will probably not stop an arterial bleed. Bullets fragment and go all different directions. You really don't know where the bleed(s) is or even IF there is a bleed. The bleeding that you can see (in a GSW) is not nearly as concerning as the bleeding you can't see.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that this device replaces a surgeon; but it may well give someone that golden hour that they might not otherwise have, and it might well extend that golden hour into more time in the right circumstances. My dad had to stick his thumbs into the entrance and exit wounds of a GSW to his chest to help stop himself from bleeding out at Iwo. He survived for almost 48 hours beyond the attention given him by a corpsman (who was killed while treating him), before he received treatment at an aid station in the field. Treatment consisted of morphine, sulfa powder sprinkled directly into the wound, and a gauze dressing. So it is possible to survive a GSW for extended periods of time under the right conditions. This device might have helped someone in my dad's position to have lost less blood than otherwise, and that would be a good thing.

[howdy]

I kind of feel we are saying the same thing and starting to beat that poor horse. In the extreme case that we ever have to shoot someone, we are trying to stop the threat. We know that the BG will either stop from fear, pain, a CNS hit or they bleed out. We know that it could take several seconds up to several minutes for someone to stop fighting, depending on where they were shot and what damage the bullet does. Most entry wounds for a bullet or being stabbed or fairly small. The size of the hole depends on the caliber or blade size of the weapon, the angle of the entry and how close the gun was to the person injured. Now look at this new devise...http://www.popsci.com/article/technolog ... kXytLGd.01" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. You are going to increase the size of the hole and the person shot will probably have you by the throat as you insert it!

I stand by my first statement....the only cure for a GSW is a Surgeon. Without that , you are just rolling the dice. I have seen people dead (I am a Paramedic) from what appeared a simple wound and alive from grotesque wounds. You just really don't know the extent of the damage or WHERE that damage is. Look at it this way, if you use that devise, the patient WILL have to have surgery to remove all thse little sponges. Maybe the bullet damaged nothing and a bandaid would work. Again, rolling the dice. I treat all torso/head GSW/stab wounds to be serious and they go to a trauma center. Even an upper leg wound can rapidly kill you. Internal bleeding is the problem and stuffing the wound, making it bigger just seems to be a waste of time. Again, I am just a lowly Paramedic and if my Medical Director says this thing works, then I will use it. I will try not to get choked.



The thing that has saved more soldiers lives is the helicopter and the field surgical hospital. What we civilians have is 911 and a trauma center.

[mamabearCali]

It looks pretty huge....unless the gsw is that huge I would be very worried about causing more trauma. Now I am not a MD, or a paramedic. I have taken first aid and I have treated little cuts and boo boo and a few times something that required stitches in the end. As a mom and a teacher and a camp counselor, the first thing you do when presented with a wound is cause no more harm. That thing (to me in it's present size) looks like it could cause more harm.

But others may know better.

Tobacco is actually a wonderful herb. It has very many wonderful uses. It is topically a pain reliever, an anti-inflammatory, and a wound knitter (help the wound heal and close). I have looked into having it in my herb garden along side my mint, comfrey, and plantain--but so far have not found out if that is legal or not (Here in VA you have to have a license to grow a row of cotton for petes sake!). Just don't light it on fire and breathe in the smoke or chew it for an extended period of time. Mastication in emergency situations can bring out the herbs properties quickly to help stop pain/inflamation, but don't keep chewing the darn thing. Put it on the wound.

[WildBill]

Tobacco is actually a wonderful herb. It has very many wonderful uses.

I have heard that it's a good insecticide too.

[The Annoyed Man]

The size of the hole depends on the caliber or blade size of the weapon, the angle of the entry and how close the gun was to the person injured. Now look at this new devise...http://www.popsci.com/article/technolog ... kXytLGd.01" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. You are going to increase the size of the hole and the person shot will probably have you by the throat as you insert it!

When a soldier is shot on the battlefield, the emergency treatment can seem as brutal as the injury itself. A medic must pack gauze directly into the wound cavity, sometimes as deep as 5 inches into the body, to stop bleeding from an artery. It’s an agonizing process that doesn't always work--if bleeding hasn't stopped after three minutes of applying direct pressure, the medic must pull out all the gauze and start over again. It’s so painful, “you take the guy’s gun away first,” says former U.S. Army Special Operations medic John Steinbaugh.

{——SNIP——}

Three single-use XStat applicators would replace five bulky rolls of gauze in a medic’s kit. RevMedx also designed a smaller version of the applicator, with a diameter of 12 millimeters, for narrower injuries. Each XStat will likely cost about $100, Steinbaugh says, but the price may go down as RevMedx boosts manufacturing.

Looks like they've already considered wound diameter. A 12 millimeter applicator is only a little bit bigger than an 11 millimeter (.45 caliber) hole. It's not the stretching of the wound that's going to cause pain (it was already stretched considerably larger by the temporary stretch cavity), it's the depth of the device's penetration. In my dad's case, I remember asking him when I was a kid what getting shot felt like. He said that at first it burned really badly like he had been stabbed with a red hot poker, all the way through, but that within minutes the wound track itself went basically numb (tissue shock), and from then on he felt more musculoskeletal pain from the sheer impact of the 6.5mm rifle bullet. He said it felt like he had been kicked by a mule, and his whole side, from solar plexus all the way around to his back felt beaten up and bruised, but the actual wound track itself was essentially numb, and he could not feel his thumbs inside the holes when he stuck them in there.

I'm not discounting any of your field experience, but I am old enough that I can remember the days when people in your job were "merely" ambulance drivers. They didn't start IVs. They didn't administer meds. There was no such thing as ACLS in the field. It was all "scoop and scoot". I myself was transported this way once after a vehicular accident. Now look at all the tools you have at your disposal today. . . . .and yet, your goal is still to get the patient to the ER as soon as safely possible. All I'm suggesting is that the XStat could become an additional tool in the armatorium that people like you in the field will have available to them during that golden hour, while getting the patient with penetrating trauma to the hands of a surgeon who will complete the treatment you started. It goes without saying that paramedic personnel would have to be trained and certified in the use of this device before they could use it in the field, just like they would have to be for intubations and other penetrating, "invasive" treatments, and such training would include knowing when the procedure is appropriate, and more importantly, when it is not.

[donkey]

This seems like an attempt to improve upon Quickclot's Combat Gauze. It takes the same clotting agent that is present in Combat Gauze and puts it in a bunch of tiny sponges. I'd like to see how it compares to Combat Gauze/HemCon gauze. For GSWs to the extremities, a tourniquet is generally going to be your best bet, but this could help improve aid to hard to treat areas like the armpit or groin.

[JP171]

In the field we always carried tampons and maxi pads, and tea bags, great stuff. Chew worked in a pinch too. Tourniquets went out in the dark ages as the limb they are used on will be amputated, we also have really kewl stuff made from shrimp shells that stops bleeding in most all cases. for arterial bleeds that we can ID as such, a tampon, then a maxi pad then wrap aggressively to stop the bleeding NEVER use a tourniquet unless you don't like the guy. Tobacco is used as a last resort and sparingly as too much can cause secondary effects in a hemo compromised individual, clotting agents of any type are NEVER used in thoracic injuries as they WILL cause big problems. As far as taking the soldiers weapon yes we do, and often tie them down or use other soldiers to sit on them, no I don't want to get shot stabbed or hit and yes I have been there done that on all accounts. oh and YES I am a practicing Paramedic and CLS/Corpsman

[Chemist45]

VoiceofReason wrote:

I know from experience that if I don’t have a cup of coffee first, I usually shave myself while cutting.

Uh, VOR, maybe you should have that coffee before you post.

[JP171]

VoiceofReason wrote:

I know from experience that if I don’t have a cup of coffee first, I usually shave myself while cutting.

Uh, VOR, maybe you should have that coffee before you post.

OH MY

[nyj]

In the field we always carried tampons and maxi pads, and tea bags, great stuff. Chew worked in a pinch too. Tourniquets went out in the dark ages as the limb they are used on will be amputated, we also have really kewl stuff made from shrimp shells that stops bleeding in most all cases. for arterial bleeds that we can ID as such, a tampon, then a maxi pad then wrap aggressively to stop the bleeding NEVER use a tourniquet unless you don't like the guy. Tobacco is used as a last resort and sparingly as too much can cause secondary effects in a hemo compromised individual, clotting agents of any type are NEVER used in thoracic injuries as they WILL cause big problems. As far as taking the soldiers weapon yes we do, and often tie them down or use other soldiers to sit on them, no I don't want to get shot stabbed or hit and yes I have been there done that on all accounts. oh and YES I am a practicing Paramedic and CLS/Corpsman

The bad rep that tourniquets got are long in the past. TQ's are the main go-to-tool in any uncontrollable extremity hemorrhage. They can be left on for a surprisingly long time. And with all do respect, if you are a currently certified paramedic, you should know that this is a national registry standard.

[JP171]

In the field we always carried tampons and maxi pads, and tea bags, great stuff. Chew worked in a pinch too. Tourniquets went out in the dark ages as the limb they are used on will be amputated, we also have really kewl stuff made from shrimp shells that stops bleeding in most all cases. for arterial bleeds that we can ID as such, a tampon, then a maxi pad then wrap aggressively to stop the bleeding NEVER use a tourniquet unless you don't like the guy. Tobacco is used as a last resort and sparingly as too much can cause secondary effects in a hemo compromised individual, clotting agents of any type are NEVER used in thoracic injuries as they WILL cause big problems. As far as taking the soldiers weapon yes we do, and often tie them down or use other soldiers to sit on them, no I don't want to get shot stabbed or hit and yes I have been there done that on all accounts. oh and YES I am a practicing Paramedic and CLS/Corpsman

The bad rep that tourniquets got are long in the past. TQ's are the main go-to-tool in any uncontrollable extremity hemorrhage. They can be left on for a surprisingly long time. And with all do respect, if you are a currently certified paramedic, you should know that this is a national registry standard.

NR is over rated and yes I do know and I know the results after being a paramedic for over 30 years, yep I know how it works. the standard has so many limitations on it its not funny and not worth thinking about within most metro areas as it causes too much damage, Dr. Paul Pepe refused the use of them in the 1990's because the cause more damage then benefit, Dr. Mark Blanchette refuses to allow them any where near his EMS system, should I go on? the NREMT is an abortion that needs to go away. Also Dr. Mark Rigo refuses to allow them on any of the 3 Houston area EMS systems he is medical director for nor will Dr. Jerry Wassertein. hmmm yep that says something to me, and I knew all of them before they became Doctors except Dr Blanchette.

oh and one more thing, the machine kicked me out after 22mins 17 seconds on my last test

[howdy]

In the field we always carried tampons and maxi pads, and tea bags, great stuff. Chew worked in a pinch too. Tourniquets went out in the dark ages as the limb they are used on will be amputated, we also have really kewl stuff made from shrimp shells that stops bleeding in most all cases. for arterial bleeds that we can ID as such, a tampon, then a maxi pad then wrap aggressively to stop the bleeding NEVER use a tourniquet unless you don't like the guy. Tobacco is used as a last resort and sparingly as too much can cause secondary effects in a hemo compromised individual, clotting agents of any type are NEVER used in thoracic injuries as they WILL cause big problems. As far as taking the soldiers weapon yes we do, and often tie them down or use other soldiers to sit on them, no I don't want to get shot stabbed or hit and yes I have been there done that on all accounts. oh and YES I am a practicing Paramedic and CLS/Corpsman

Tourniquets are and have since 2010 been standard of care for EVERY up to date EMS department. It is taught in Paramedic schools and carried on all up to date ambulances. If your department does not carry/train with them, you might consider a new medical director. And no, we don't put a T on their forehead in blood. We just tell the receiving ER staff that there is a tourniquet. The new tourniquets are very quick to install and can be done with one hand if you practice.

[howdy]

In the field we always carried tampons and maxi pads, and tea bags, great stuff. Chew worked in a pinch too. Tourniquets went out in the dark ages as the limb they are used on will be amputated, we also have really kewl stuff made from shrimp shells that stops bleeding in most all cases. for arterial bleeds that we can ID as such, a tampon, then a maxi pad then wrap aggressively to stop the bleeding NEVER use a tourniquet unless you don't like the guy. Tobacco is used as a last resort and sparingly as too much can cause secondary effects in a hemo compromised individual, clotting agents of any type are NEVER used in thoracic injuries as they WILL cause big problems. As far as taking the soldiers weapon yes we do, and often tie them down or use other soldiers to sit on them, no I don't want to get shot stabbed or hit and yes I have been there done that on all accounts. oh and YES I am a practicing Paramedic and CLS/Corpsman

The bad rep that tourniquets got are long in the past. TQ's are the main go-to-tool in any uncontrollable extremity hemorrhage. They can be left on for a surprisingly long time. And with all do respect, if you are a currently certified paramedic, you should know that this is a national registry standard.

NR is over rated and yes I do know and I know the results after being a paramedic for over 30 years, yep I know how it works. the standard has so many limitations on it its not funny and not worth thinking about within most metro areas as it causes too much damage, Dr. Paul Pepe refused the use of them in the 1990's because the cause more damage then benefit, Dr. Mark Blanchette refuses to allow them any where near his EMS system, should I go on? the NREMT needs to go away

This is one thing we DO agree with