Mcdonald's Robbery

[EEllis]

So I am confused as to what you are stating would be your best estimate of appropriate action in this scenario? I think ( at least I hope) I have made it clear I would not want to start any shootout however if they began shooting I would want to be prepared to react quickly. And it does make me want to re-evaluate how many rounds my weapon will hold.

Are you stating you would feel comfortable on betting that if you simply shoot one guy, the other five will turn tail and run?

There are so many variables that I couldn't say what the best thing to do is. Heck just when you see the BG's and where you are standing can make a night a day difference on if you should act. Unless I noticed and was able to get the "drop" on the BG's I don't think I would fire unless directly threatened, or I thought someone else was in danger. I do feel comfortable with saying that after anyone shoots the BG's will be hauling butt out of there. Now they well may keep shooting as they leave but it would be almost unheard of for them to stay just to shoot it out when they are robbing someplace. Gunshots bring cops and they don't want to meet the cops so they move unless there is some personal beef or they are completely flipped.

[Carzan]

So I am confused as to what you are stating would be your best estimate of appropriate action in this scenario? I think ( at least I hope) I have made it clear I would not want to start any shootout however if they began shooting I would want to be prepared to react quickly. And it does make me want to re-evaluate how many rounds my weapon will hold.

Are you stating you would feel comfortable on betting that if you simply shoot one guy, the other five will turn tail and run?

There are so many variables that I couldn't say what the best thing to do is. Heck just when you see the BG's and where you are standing can make a night a day difference on if you should act. Unless I noticed and was able to get the "drop" on the BG's I don't think I would fire unless directly threatened, or I thought someone else was in danger. I do feel comfortable with saying that after anyone shoots the BG's will be hauling butt out of there. Now they well may keep shooting as they leave but it would be almost unheard of for them to stay just to shoot it out when they are robbing someplace. Gunshots bring cops and they don't want to meet the cops so they move unless there is some personal beef or they are completely flipped.

Agreed!

[dac1842]

Why not just be a good witness? Here are some facts:
1- unless you train for this scenario, or have been trained, the odds of a proper reaction are about 10%. Numerous studies show 90% of the public will freeze or panic.

2- some os you said you would open fire. Why? There were six of them, odds are you would have instigated a massacre.

3-I am a trained, certified SWAT sniper (retired), even I would just be a witness unless the suspects fired first. Police tactics 101, confront the robbers outside. This way you minimize the odds of a hostage situation and bystander injuries.

4- all the true heros are dead. Don't be in a hurry to join them. Your eyes and ears are truly the best weapons you have.

Until you are involved in a shooting scenario you really don't know how you will react. Pray daily you will never find out.

[Oldgringo]

Why not just be a good witness? Here are some facts:
1- unless you train for this scenario, or have been trained, the odds of a proper reaction are about 10%. Numerous studies show 90% of the public will freeze or panic.

2- some os you said you would open fire. Why? There were six of them, odds are you would have instigated a massacre.

3-I am a trained, certified SWAT sniper (retired), even I would just be a witness unless the suspects fired first. Police tactics 101, confront the robbers outside. This way you minimize the odds of a hostage situation and bystander injuries.

4- all the true heros are dead. Don't be in a hurry to join them. Your eyes and ears are truly the best weapons you have.

Until you are involved in a shooting scenario you really don't know how you will react. Pray daily you will never find out.

There it is! Well said. A Texas CHL is not a Batman license. (It's been awhile since I've had the opportunity to say that. to 03Lightningrocks)

[03Lightningrocks]

Why not just be a good witness? Here are some facts:
1- unless you train for this scenario, or have been trained, the odds of a proper reaction are about 10%. Numerous studies show 90% of the public will freeze or panic.

2- some os you said you would open fire. Why? There were six of them, odds are you would have instigated a massacre.

3-I am a trained, certified SWAT sniper (retired), even I would just be a witness unless the suspects fired first. Police tactics 101, confront the robbers outside. This way you minimize the odds of a hostage situation and bystander injuries.

4- all the true heros are dead. Don't be in a hurry to join them. Your eyes and ears are truly the best weapons you have.

Until you are involved in a shooting scenario you really don't know how you will react. Pray daily you will never find out.

There it is! Well said. A Texas CHL is not a Batman license. (It's been awhile since I've had the opportunity to say that. to 03Lightningrocks)

I should get some kind of royalty every time "batman license" is written on this forum.

And thanks to the retired officer for the valuable input.

[TomsTXCHL]

Why not just be a good witness? Here are some facts:
1- unless you train for this scenario, or have been trained, the odds of a proper reaction are about 10%. Numerous studies show 90% of the public will freeze or panic.

2- some os you said you would open fire. Why? There were six of them, odds are you would have instigated a massacre.

3-I am a trained, certified SWAT sniper (retired), even I would just be a witness unless the suspects fired first. Police tactics 101, confront the robbers outside. This way you minimize the odds of a hostage situation and bystander injuries.

4- all the true heros are dead. Don't be in a hurry to join them. Your eyes and ears are truly the best weapons you have.

Until you are involved in a shooting scenario you really don't know how you will react. Pray daily you will never find out.

Wonderful post; thank you very much for that. If you ever need (or want) to go back to work let us know; some of us would flock to any training/safety course you could conduct ("Concealed Carry 101").

[Amonix]

After reading this forum I am kind of interested in all the taking on 6 people. If I was a betting man and had a 6-1 odd of losing I don't think I would take that bet.

My point is for me, I would think there is too many variables to simply plan for if I were to engage 6 armed people. When I read some of the posts my first thoughts went like this:

1. Armed group enters building. Most McDonalds I have been to have multiple entrances but assuming they came in through the main entrance which may be a two door allows two at one time.
2. I reach for my gun at 3:30 Clock position. By this time people are now yelling, and most likely screaming at the site of the armed group entering the room.
3. I aim, I pull the trigger, and fire a second round.
4. People now in fear for their lives because of my two gunshots get up and run.
5. I now have maybe 5 or if I am good 4 BG's down (possibly not kill shots. My skill is just not there I think).
6. Tunnel vision has kicked in the good guys mix with the bad guys and I react not knowing.

Maybe I am lacking in skill and confidence. I know I may sound crazy with this logic, but I see this situation like I see driving. I am not a bad driver, but the other drivers out there on the road I can't account for. I can't honestly think that those people who now heard gun shots aren't going to be running and I don't know if those guys holding the guns are bad shots either. With that also being said, I would say that if bullets started going first then yes I would want to go out fighting because the odds are I am either going to die not trying or I will.

If I am wrong please let me know. I know there are some one this forum that are way better skilled than I. I don't mind learning from experts. This situation makes me cringe because I can't plan for everything.

[Oldgringo]

After reading this forum I am kind of interested in all the taking on 6 people. If I was a betting man and had a 6-1 odd of losing I don't think I would take that bet.

My point is for me, I would think there is too many variables to simply plan for if I were to engage 6 armed people. When I read some of the posts my first thoughts went like this:

1. Armed group enters building. Most McDonalds I have been to have multiple entrances but assuming they came in through the main entrance which may be a two door allows two at one time.
2. I reach for my gun at 3:30 Clock position. By this time people are now yelling, and most likely screaming at the site of the armed group entering the room.
3. I aim, I pull the trigger, and fire a second round.
4. People now in fear for their lives because of my two gunshots get up and run.
5. I now have maybe 5 or if I am good 4 BG's down (possibly not kill shots. My skill is just not there I think).
6. Tunnel vision has kicked in the good guys mix with the bad guys and I react not knowing.

Maybe I am lacking in skill and confidence. I know I may sound crazy with this logic, but I see this situation like I see driving. I am not a bad driver, but the other drivers out there on the road I can't account for. I can't honestly think that those people who now heard gun shots aren't going to be running and I don't know if those guys holding the guns are bad shots either. With that also being said, I would say that if bullets started going first then yes I would want to go out fighting because the odds are I am either going to die not trying or I will.

If I am wrong please let me know. I know there are some one this forum that are way better skilled than I. I don't mind learning from experts. This situation makes me cringe because I can't plan for everything.

Keep you gun in your pants...until someone points a gun at YOU or yours. A CHL is not a Batman license. (That makes twice this weekend I've used '03's phrase. )

[LadyLightening]

After reading this forum I am kind of interested in all the taking on 6 people. If I was a betting man and had a 6-1 odd of losing I don't think I would take that bet.

My point is for me, I would think there is too many variables to simply plan for if I were to engage 6 armed people. When I read some of the posts my first thoughts went like this:

1. Armed group enters building. Most McDonalds I have been to have multiple entrances but assuming they came in through the main entrance which may be a two door allows two at one time.
2. I reach for my gun at 3:30 Clock position. By this time people are now yelling, and most likely screaming at the site of the armed group entering the room.
3. I aim, I pull the trigger, and fire a second round.
4. People now in fear for their lives because of my two gunshots get up and run.
5. I now have maybe 5 or if I am good 4 BG's down (possibly not kill shots. My skill is just not there I think).
6. Tunnel vision has kicked in the good guys mix with the bad guys and I react not knowing.

Maybe I am lacking in skill and confidence. I know I may sound crazy with this logic, but I see this situation like I see driving. I am not a bad driver, but the other drivers out there on the road I can't account for. I can't honestly think that those people who now heard gun shots aren't going to be running and I don't know if those guys holding the guns are bad shots either. With that also being said, I would say that if bullets started going first then yes I would want to go out fighting because the odds are I am either going to die not trying or I will.

If I am wrong please let me know. I know there are some one this forum that are way better skilled than I. I don't mind learning from experts. This situation makes me cringe because I can't plan for everything.

Keep you gun in your pants...until someone points a gun at YOU or yours. A CHL is not a Batman license. (That makes twice this weekend I've used '03's phrase. )

Where can I get a batman license at?

[apostate]

Where can I get a batman license at?

Have you checked Singapore?

[Amonix]

After reading this forum I am kind of interested in all the taking on 6 people. If I was a betting man and had a 6-1 odd of losing I don't think I would take that bet.

My point is for me, I would think there is too many variables to simply plan for if I were to engage 6 armed people. When I read some of the posts my first thoughts went like this:

1. Armed group enters building. Most McDonalds I have been to have multiple entrances but assuming they came in through the main entrance which may be a two door allows two at one time.
2. I reach for my gun at 3:30 Clock position. By this time people are now yelling, and most likely screaming at the site of the armed group entering the room.
3. I aim, I pull the trigger, and fire a second round.
4. People now in fear for their lives because of my two gunshots get up and run.
5. I now have maybe 5 or if I am good 4 BG's down (possibly not kill shots. My skill is just not there I think).
6. Tunnel vision has kicked in the good guys mix with the bad guys and I react not knowing.

Maybe I am lacking in skill and confidence. I know I may sound crazy with this logic, but I see this situation like I see driving. I am not a bad driver, but the other drivers out there on the road I can't account for. I can't honestly think that those people who now heard gun shots aren't going to be running and I don't know if those guys holding the guns are bad shots either. With that also being said, I would say that if bullets started going first then yes I would want to go out fighting because the odds are I am either going to die not trying or I will.

If I am wrong please let me know. I know there are some one this forum that are way better skilled than I. I don't mind learning from experts. This situation makes me cringe because I can't plan for everything.

Keep you gun in your pants...until someone points a gun at YOU or yours. A CHL is not a Batman license. (That makes twice this weekend I've used '03's phrase. )

Agreed. My objective, although unstated (my fault) would be if that gun was directed at me. My batman license was revoked in 2009 something about fees or training. Who knows... I guess I wasn't the biggest fan.

[LadyLightening]

Where can I get a batman license at?

Have you checked Singapore?

[ Image ]

No but if you photoshop my avatar on there that'll do!

[03Lightningrocks]

[LadyLightening]

[ Image ]

New Jersey? Batman can't help anyone in New Jersey!

[03Lightningrocks]

Hahaha...true.