JP171 wrote:I unlike Charles have reason to believe the dog owner is not being completely on the level as an ATV rider I know that dogs chase me quite often, the dog was not on a leash/lead and leash laws apply to ALL property with few exceptions such as fenced area's at home or as designated by being a dog park and FtBend County and the city of Richmond both have leash laws. the ATV was only 10 feet from the dog according to the story, the owner never said how far from him the dog and ATV were and no you cannot always out run the dog no matter what you think its not always possible he never said if the dog was going toward the ATV or away or barking or wagging its tail.
I have to be the devils advocate here, if the dog was chasing him he was justified in shooting the dog(been there done that) if the owner whooped out his trusty pistola and shot the ATV rider he just committed at the very least agg assault if the rider dies he just committed murder. in Texas animals like dogs and cats are considered chattel and under the law if the animal is aggressive towards a person or livestock can be shot. However all that being as it is, if it is found that the ATV Rider shot the dog out of just plain meanness I will help you string him up and use him like a piñata
We rode our Polaris Sportsman 500X2 all over the San Juan Mountains of Colorado for several years. I don't think the dog has been born that could outrun that ATV on level ground; ergo, there is no need to shoot a dog in pursuit. PLUS, it would have to be a left hand shot from a moving, bouncing ATV. The right thumb would be on the throttle if the ATV was in motion. Right?
your making an assumption I won't grant you OG, we don't know where the dog was coming from and I have been bitten by a dog at 35 mph on my bike so I can see the person stopping if the dog was coming in at a forward angle and if the dog didn't stop I would shoot it. Also, only 1 channel has the story that I can find and 13 is notoriously against weapons of any kind
I've never shot a dog but I have put many miles on an ATV.
All ATV's, to my knowledge, have a spring restrained right thumb throttle. Take your thumb off the throttle and the ATV stops. That is not an assumption. The ATV was stopped when the dog was murdered or the operator made two outstanding left hand shots from a bumpety moving vehicle....and then sped off.
JP171 wrote:I unlike Charles have reason to believe the dog owner is not being completely on the level as an ATV rider I know that dogs chase me quite often, the dog was not on a leash/lead and leash laws apply to ALL property with few exceptions such as fenced area's at home or as designated by being a dog park and FtBend County and the city of Richmond both have leash laws. the ATV was only 10 feet from the dog according to the story, the owner never said how far from him the dog and ATV were and no you cannot always out run the dog no matter what you think its not always possible he never said if the dog was going toward the ATV or away or barking or wagging its tail.
I have to be the devils advocate here, if the dog was chasing him he was justified in shooting the dog(been there done that) if the owner whooped out his trusty pistola and shot the ATV rider he just committed at the very least agg assault if the rider dies he just committed murder. in Texas animals like dogs and cats are considered chattel and under the law if the animal is aggressive towards a person or livestock can be shot. However all that being as it is, if it is found that the ATV Rider shot the dog out of just plain meanness I will help you string him up and use him like a piñata
We rode our Polaris Sportsman 500X2 all over the San Juan Mountains of Colorado for several years. I don't think the dog has been born that could outrun that ATV on level ground; ergo, there is no need to shoot a dog in pursuit. PLUS, it would have to be a left hand shot from a moving, bouncing ATV. The right thumb would be on the throttle if the ATV was in motion. Right?
your making an assumption I won't grant you OG, we don't know where the dog was coming from and I have been bitten by a dog at 35 mph on my bike so I can see the person stopping if the dog was coming in at a forward angle and if the dog didn't stop I would shoot it. Also, only 1 channel has the story that I can find and 13 is notoriously against weapons of any kind
I've never shot a dog but I have put many miles on an ATV.
All ATV's, to my knowledge, have a spring restrained right thumb throttle. Take your thumb off the throttle and the ATV stops. That is not an assumption. The ATV was stopped when the dog was murdered or the operator made two outstanding left hand shots from a bumpety moving vehicle....and then sped off.
it says right in the story that they stopped. nope that is incorrect none of mine have thumb throttles, I remove them and put in twist throttles. ok new information that is different on click2 Houston
now the guy is saying he was walking his dog along the road
{--snip--} The dogs owner said he was walking his 4-year-old Labrador retriever around 4 p.m. on Tuesday, when two people approached him on four-wheel ATVs. He said the suspects were about 10 feet from him but were very close to the dog.
so either the news reports are wrong or the dogs owner is tellin stories outta church, possibly both, but I am beginning to lean towards the atv riders being in the wrong but still too many inconsistencies in the stories and habits of ATV riders. Like has been said its very unusual for someone that is just a thug to have full gear as it costs quite a bit of money to purchase
03Lightningrocks wrote:
I think what many of us are saying is that leash or no leash, my property or someone else's, it is not normal for a person to just kill a dog for kicks. It is flat out wrong to do. If the dog were attacking the riders, they would have either stayed and talked to the owner or at the least, called the cops after they left and told their story.
Well I think the argument is that the dog may not have been killed for kicks. I also don't know that everyone who legally kills an animal always stays to talk to the cops. Heck the first post is stating it would be ok to shoot the guy. Then you may still have liability or trespassing charges on riding the atv. There is just not enough info for me to feel comfortable with saying anything is a certainty in this situation with what we know now.
03Lightningrocks wrote:
I think what many of us are saying is that leash or no leash, my property or someone else's, it is not normal for a person to just kill a dog for kicks. It is flat out wrong to do. If the dog were attacking the riders, they would have either stayed and talked to the owner or at the least, called the cops after they left and told their story.
Well I think the argument is that the dog may not have been killed for kicks. I also don't know that everyone who legally kills an animal always stays to talk to the cops. Heck the first post is stating it would be ok to shoot the guy. Then you may still have liability or trespassing charges on riding the atv. There is just not enough info for me to feel comfortable with saying anything is a certainty in this situation with what we know now.
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not believing the dog was attacking the rider. People who are defending themselves legally, don't hide from the cops.
not only that but we're talking about a Labrador retriever, not a pitbull or rottweiler....have you ever seen a lab attack anything other than waterfowl?
"Our houses are protected by the Good Lord and a gun, you might em both if you show up here not welcome son" Josh Thompson- Way out here (best song ever) "eventually all citizens will become criminals with enough legislation....."
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not believing the dog was attacking the rider. People who are defending themselves legally, don't hide from the cops.
not only that but we're talking about a Labrador retriever, not a pitbull or rottweiler....have you ever seen a lab attack anything other than waterfowl?
the only danger from most labs is getting licked to death.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
Whether or not the shooting of the dog was justified, or if any or all parties were where they were supposed to be, am not sure that a reasonable case case couldn't be made for "Your Honor, they already shot my dog, twice, and I thought I was next."
we're talking about a Labrador retriever, not a pitbull or rottweiler....have you ever seen a lab attack anything other than waterfowl?[/quote] the only danger from most labs is getting licked to death.[/quote]
plus I do not know many labs that have to be on a leash to be under control I would trust my safety to a loose lab more than most people walking on the street
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not believing the dog was attacking the rider. People who are defending themselves legally, don't hide from the cops.
Your logic is strong here.
I've not been on a 4 wheeler but I was raised on dirt bikes. No dog could catch you on one. Plus if you're wearing proper gear you're pretty invulnerable to minor things like dogs (its kind of the point).
Now I have no love for people who have dogs off leash - as they inevitably come over and want to mess with mine when I'm walking them, but this scenario sounds like nonsense.
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not believing the dog was attacking the rider. People who are defending themselves legally, don't hide from the cops.
not only that but we're talking about a Labrador retriever, not a pitbull or rottweiler....have you ever seen a lab attack anything other than waterfowl?
the only danger from most labs is getting licked to death.
the bold word is the key ,if it has a mouth it can and will bite, I agree that there really isn't enough information to make a real call on this, I won't necessarily agree with that they have something to hide because they didn't talk to the cops either, I have been bitten by dogs while riding and on the public street, I ride a bike that has in excess of 150 rear wheel HP and still been bitten so again I am not defending totally the shooting of the dog, merely asking questions about the circumstances and the changing story of the dogs owner. I will also put this to those of you here I do have 3rd hand info that this guy is not on the level but I can't prove it and it comes from someone I don't know so can't say I trust him
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not believing the dog was attacking the rider. People who are defending themselves legally, don't hide from the cops.
not only that but we're talking about a Labrador retriever, not a pitbull or rottweiler....have you ever seen a lab attack anything other than waterfowl?
the only danger from most labs is getting licked to death.
the bold word is the key ,if it has a mouth it can and will bite, I agree that there really isn't enough information to make a real call on this, I won't necessarily agree with that they have something to hide because they didn't talk to the cops either, I have been bitten by dogs while riding and on the public street, I ride a bike that has in excess of 150 rear wheel HP and still been bitten so again I am not defending totally the shooting of the dog, merely asking questions about the circumstances and the changing story of the dogs owner. I will also put this to those of you here I do have 3rd hand info that this guy is not on the level but I can't prove it and it comes from someone I don't know so can't say I trust him
Defending against a dog without the owner present is one thing, but shooting a dog with the owner 10 feet away is quite another. I could see the person riding away in the first example, but not in the second. As for the news report, I've been interviewed enough to know that sometimes what is printed isn't close to what I said. Plus, there are no serious inconsistencies in either version of the events, certainly not any of legal consequence. If the riders were being chased by the dog, I don't see them stopping, pulling a pistol, then shooting; they would have ridden away.
The story was on the radio this morning and a good description of the clothing and vehicles was given. Crime Stoppers is now offering $5,000 for information leading to an arrest, so some of their little buddies will rat them out for $5K.
EEllis wrote:. . . Heck the first post is stating it would be ok to shoot the guy.
You are obviously presuming the OP said that solely to prevent the shooting of the dog or in retaliation for shooting the dog. I didn't interpret his comment in that manner.
If I'm walking my dog and two ATV riders completely covered so that they cannot be identified ride within 10 feet of me, stop, pull a pistol, they are going to get shot. I'm not going to wait to see if they are going to shoot me or my dog. That looks to the world like a hijacking.
EEllis wrote:. . . Heck the first post is stating it would be ok to shoot the guy.
You are obviously presuming the OP said that solely to prevent the shooting of the dog or in retaliation for shooting the dog. I didn't interpret his comment in that manner.
If I'm walking my dog and two ATV riders completely covered so that they cannot be identified ride within 10 feet of me, stop, pull a pistol, they are going to get shot. I'm not going to wait to see if they are going to shoot me or my dog. That looks to the world like a hijacking.
Chas.
Chas has the way of it.
Having said that, trying to shoot a wiener dog is a fool's errand. They are little bad breathed ninjas...
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not believing the dog was attacking the rider. People who are defending themselves legally, don't hide from the cops.
Exactly right. If it was a good shoot by the ATV rider, then one would expect them to stay and talk to the owner, or at least call the police after they left. There's every reason to believe the dog owner.
As for not being on a leash, that doesn't wash for me. Not being on a least doesn't mean someone else gets to kill the dog. Oh yeah, why were ATV riders on property that wasn't theirs?
Chas.
This also kind of confirms the point "first to call the police is the victim".
the only danger from most labs is getting licked to death.
