Mcdonald's Robbery

[03Lightningrocks]

And most important of all, who amongst us has the right to risk others lives because we are scared of danger to ourselves. Second... And get ready because I am about to say it the way it is... Only a darned fool would open fire on a person who can return fire with their loved ones sitting or standing right beside them. It is one thing to have a personal death wish. It is something else to put it on others.

Winners in battle know that living to fight another day far exceeds the honor of dying on the spot. What this means for a situation like this is, wait to see if opening fire is the only way. Why... Because you ARE going to be at an extreme disadvantage. Why not wait it out a few minutes to see if dying that day is necessary?

Another reason to hold back is that you have no way of knowing if an accomplice was pre-positioned inside the restaurant to take out any resistance from behind.

It really seems to me this is a situation where one must remain cool while trying to size up the entirety of the situation. The only part of my plan I already have figured out is getting my weapon to a "ready to fire" condition as best I could. Jumping up and firing randomly at whom I think might be the bad guys does not seem like a way to survive. My desire to save me and mine far exceeds my desire to "teach the bad guys a lesson".

[EEllis]

I am not willing to passively entrust my future in the hands of people who have already demonstrated sociopathic behavior by committing armed robbery. I may pick and choose my own time, tactics, methods, or strategy, but I will actively choosing my own course of events instead of quivering on the floor hoping for mercy.

Excuse me if I'm ascribing an attitude that you didn't mean but who do you think is saying you should trust the BG's? I think at best people are saying that the time and situation makes it a very poor one to pull your gun and start a gunfight with 6 gunmen.

[Jumping Frog]

Excuse me if I'm ascribing an attitude that you didn't mean but who do you think is saying you should trust the BG's? I think at best people are saying that the time and situation makes it a very poor one to pull your gun and start a gunfight with 6 gunmen.

I wasn't addressing anyone else or ascribing motives or behavior to anyone else. I was simply describing the decision I have long ago made should I ever face a situation where people are pointing guns at me. I am simply unwilling to passively entrust my well-being to relying upon good judgment or mercy of felons. I'd rather get shot while defending myself than passively let someone else control the outcome.

What you or anyone else has to say about your own choices is certainly your privilege.

[jmra]

On balance, there was the church shooting in France where a congregation member with a small caliber pistol took on a group of BGs with a lot heavier weapons. Sometimes, it is about how much courage you have and not about how much you are outnumbered. In a crowded fast food place, however, I cannot imagine it ending well if shooting starts.

I thought that was in Zimbabwe or South Africa....and he had a revolver because one revolver was the only handgun allowed by law?

France would be more believable. They've been dropping heavy weapons at the first sign of trouble for over 60 years.

[jmra]

Perhaps, one could employ the "Blazing Saddles" type threat of holding your pistol up to your own head and command the robbers to leave or you'll kill yourself.

Hey, it worked in the movie.

I was going to embed the video but it contains politically incorrect, socially unacceptable, and (what many would define as) racist language.
Not sure I'm even allowed to watch that movie anymore.

[03Lightningrocks]

...."abraham"...

What you or anyone else has to say about your own choices is certainly your privilege.

Unless you complain about it. Then the mods delete it.

[Jumping Frog]

Unless you complain about it. Then the mods delete it.

Seems to me the mods delete posts that violate forum rules. That is also their right and prerogative.

[03Lightningrocks]

Unless you complain about it. Then the mods delete it.

Seems to me the mods delete posts that violate forum rules. That is also their right and prerogative.

Some are more enforced upon than others.

[VMI77]

On balance, there was the church shooting in France where a congregation member with a small caliber pistol took on a group of BGs with a lot heavier weapons. Sometimes, it is about how much courage you have and not about how much you are outnumbered. In a crowded fast food place, however, I cannot imagine it ending well if shooting starts.

I thought that was in Zimbabwe or South Africa....and he had a revolver because one revolver was the only handgun allowed by law?

France would be more believable. They've been dropping heavy weapons at the first sign of trouble for over 60 years.

http://www.wnd.com/2008/07/70372/

This is the only such incident I'm aware of:

“Grenades were exploding in flashes of light. Pews shattered under the blasts, sending splinters flying through the air,” he recalled. “An automatic assault rifle was being fired and was fast ripping the pews – and whoever, whatever was in its trajectory – to pieces. We were being attacked!

“Instinctively, I knelt down behind the bench in front of me and pulled out my .38 special snub-nosed revolver, which I always carried with me,” he writes in “Shooting Back.” “I would have felt undressed without it. Many people could not understand why I would carry a firearm into a church service, but I argued that this was a particularly dangerous time in South Africa.”

[drjoker]

I don't know about you, but pretending that a thug will keep his promise and not kill all the witnesses (YOU) after the robbery is believing in a fantasy. The thug might shoot you and he might not, but I'd rather trust my shooting ability than trust the ability of some low life to keep his promise. Tell me, if this human varmint walks into the Micey D's and asks to borrow $100 from you to buy meth, would you do it? Would you trust him to pay you back? Then why the heck would you trust him not to shoot you if you did not resist the robbery attempt by feeding 'em some lead?

And if even one of the 6 armed assailants started firing into or even at the restaurant? Mind you if I saw them coming and could fire as they were coming in I most likely would take that shot but everything has risk and pretending otherwise is believing in a fantasy. I'll risk it and try and defend myself and others if I can but I also realize that in doing so it is possible that someone innocent in the store ends up shot where they might not if I don't take action. Of course I might also save someone, but there are no guarantees

[03Lightningrocks]

I don't know about you, but pretending that a thug will keep his promise and not kill all the witnesses (YOU) after the robbery is believing in a fantasy. The thug might shoot you and he might not, but I'd rather trust my shooting ability than trust the ability of some low life to keep his promise. Tell me, if this human varmint walks into the Micey D's and asks to borrow $100 from you to buy meth, would you do it? Would you trust him to pay you back? Then why the heck would you trust him not to shoot you if you did not resist the robbery attempt by feeding 'em some lead?
......"abraham"....

I am not so sure I go for that analogy. Give me a few hours and a couple single malts. Maybe it will make more sense to me.

[locke_n_load]

http://blog.rtba.co/dallas-store-manage ... sNin_RDtwx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another interesting article with mulitple armed gunmen, who take off running after being shot at.
And yes, minutes count, police only an hour + away. And Assault Rifle terminology makes me cringe.

[jmra]

On balance, there was the church shooting in France where a congregation member with a small caliber pistol took on a group of BGs with a lot heavier weapons. Sometimes, it is about how much courage you have and not about how much you are outnumbered. In a crowded fast food place, however, I cannot imagine it ending well if shooting starts.

I thought that was in Zimbabwe or South Africa....and he had a revolver because one revolver was the only handgun allowed by law?

France would be more believable. They've been dropping heavy weapons at the first sign of trouble for over 60 years.

http://www.wnd.com/2008/07/70372/

This is the only such incident I'm aware of:

“Grenades were exploding in flashes of light. Pews shattered under the blasts, sending splinters flying through the air,” he recalled. “An automatic assault rifle was being fired and was fast ripping the pews – and whoever, whatever was in its trajectory – to pieces. We were being attacked!

“Instinctively, I knelt down behind the bench in front of me and pulled out my .38 special snub-nosed revolver, which I always carried with me,” he writes in “Shooting Back.” “I would have felt undressed without it. Many people could not understand why I would carry a firearm into a church service, but I argued that this was a particularly dangerous time in South Africa.”

Of course you know I wasn't being serious.

[EEllis]

I don't know about you, but pretending that a thug will keep his promise and not kill all the witnesses (YOU) after the robbery is believing in a fantasy. The thug might shoot you and he might not, but I'd rather trust my shooting ability than trust the ability of some low life to keep his promise. Tell me, if this human varmint walks into the Micey D's and asks to borrow $100 from you to buy meth, would you do it? Would you trust him to pay you back? Then why the heck would you trust him not to shoot you if you did not resist the robbery attempt by feeding 'em some lead?

And if even one of the 6 armed assailants started firing into or even at the restaurant? Mind you if I saw them coming and could fire as they were coming in I most likely would take that shot but everything has risk and pretending otherwise is believing in a fantasy. I'll risk it and try and defend myself and others if I can but I also realize that in doing so it is possible that someone innocent in the store ends up shot where they might not if I don't take action. Of course I might also save someone, but there are no guarantees

What does one thing have to do with the other? Are you even talking about the same situation? If so how? How do you get that it might be a better tactical choice to hold fire if you have 6 dispersed armed individuals intent on robbery than starting a gunfight were multiple people being shot are almost guaranteed some how equates someone asking for money to buy meth? That making a tactical choice = tusting lowlifes.

I'm sorry it's clear some people have never been faced with real life and death choices. Anyone who has and still thinks glib little phrases mean something is ...... never mind

[VMI77]

Of course you know I wasn't being serious.

Yeah, your statement reminded me of the line in the movie FMJ in selling an M16 issued to the South Vietnamese army --never been fired and only dropped once. I know it's an old joke about the French....but really, they did put up more of a fight than popular history gives them credit for. My roommate in college used to say that France needed to start a war with Germany every so often in order to repopulate their country.