Carry at a client site (contractor)

[CosmosMpower]

I am a consultant for a company based here in the DFW area. Upon joining the firm I signed a notice to agree that I would not bring explosives or firearms onto company property. The trouble is that I am rarely ever on company property as I work at client sites. What is everyone's take here about carrying at a client site on company time if the client does not have a 30.06 posted or any contractor handbook/agreements in force? Does the limitation to not carry on company premise carry over to a client site even if it is not worded that way?

I would be fine leaving the gun in the car however the job is in downtown Dallas and the parking situation is valet parking across the street at a hotel so I would not feel safe leaving it in the car without some sort of lockbox solution and even then it's not ideal.

[WinoVeritas]

I'm my own boss, so I'll not be firing myself - I carry when I can, although some customers companies frown on weapons of any nature. There I will stow the gun in car lockbox, particularly if I'm going to be doing any climbing around on equipment. If there were the possibility I would lose my job or a customer over it, I would not carry except where I knew it was okay. mainly because I like to eat and afford to go to the range every now and then. My rights do not exceed their rights IMO.

[CosmosMpower]

Thanks for the post. I don't have explicit written permission to carry nor would I expect to get it if I asked however there is nothing in writing prohibiting me from carrying so I guess this is a bit of a grey area. I would not want to risk my employment but I'd pick that option rather than be murdered in a botched robbery downtown.

Does anyone know of a good attorney well versed in this area in DFW I can perhaps call?

[Ameer]

I am a consultant for a company based here in the DFW area. Upon joining the firm I signed a notice to agree that I would not bring explosives or firearms onto company property. The trouble is that I am rarely ever on company property as I work at client sites. What is everyone's take here about carrying at a client site on company time if the client does not have a 30.06 posted or any contractor handbook/agreements in force?

It sounds like it's legal but they can fire you if they catch you.

[Jim88]

It may depend on the wording but they gave you effective notice in writing and you signed it. At best, they may just ask you to leave and never come back. At worst, they could have you arrested. You're probably safe from arrest on the client site (without a 30.06) but not from the company's premises.

[jmra]

It may depend on the wording but they gave you effective notice in writing and you signed it. At best, they may just ask you to leave and never come back. At worst, they could have you arrested. You're probably safe from arrest on the client site (without a 30.06) but not from the company's premises.

It does indeed depend on the wording. Nothing stated by the OP comes anywhere close to suggesting that 30.06 requirements were met in the document he signed. Could be fired, but nothing to suggest that he has received "effective notice".

[Tic Tac]

If they don't write the magic words, it's as meaningless as sign language at Mandela's funeral.

[rotor]

I think you can imply that they don't want guns or explosives. When working at outside sites you are representing the company and they don't like guns. If you want to keep this job I would ask permission, if they approve get it in writing. Otherwise the technicality of the wording doesn't mean a lot as they can fire you at will anyhow. Fortunately for me I am my own boss but I do frequent places with a 30.06 and have to stash my firearm in the glove box.

[apostate]

You can imply whatever you choose but if the written document is non-compliant I won't infer or assume they meant it to be.

[Jim88]

Nothing stated by the OP comes anywhere close to suggesting that 30.06 requirements were met

Nor does anything the OP stated NOT suggest the requirements weren't met so here we are disagreeing over a hypothetical wording that neither of us has been made privy to. Keep that in mind when you're handcuffed and headed downtown. Every time I carry, I remember that interpretation is still up to the LEO and up to you to get an attorney to get you out of it. I know when I'm legal to carry but everyone has to decide if the notice they were given is worth the worst-case scenario. For example, I'm not willing to risk my job or money on an arrest over a valid 30.06 wording on letters that are an 1/16 of inch too small. I also stand by my use of the words "effective notice" - 'effective' meaning valid and legal. YMMV. Personally, I don't think any of us should have any restrictions on where we carry.

[jmra]

Nothing stated by the OP comes anywhere close to suggesting that 30.06 requirements were met

Nor does anything the OP stated NOT suggest the requirements weren't met so here we are disagreeing over a hypothetical wording that neither of us has been made privy to. Keep that in mind when you're handcuffed and headed downtown. Every time I carry, I remember that interpretation is still up to the LEO and up to you to get an attorney to get you out of it. I know when I'm legal to carry but everyone has to decide if the notice they were given is worth the worst-case scenario. For example, I'm not willing to risk my job or money on an arrest over a valid 30.06 wording on letters that are an 1/16 of inch too small. I also stand by my use of the words "effective notice" - 'effective' meaning valid and legal. YMMV. Personally, I don't think any of us should have any restrictions on where we carry.

I think you are trying to argue double negatives. The OP is obviously versed on the subject enough to have stated that the agreement he signed contained 30.06 language if in fact it had. He didn't state such so it is obvious that it didn't. I refuse to argue solely for the sake of argument, so peace out.

[gringo pistolero]

a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person

If the contract company is providing security for the site, they might have apparent authority to set trespassing rules. However, I don't think there's any apparent authority to make those decisions if the contractor is providing computer, accounting, maintenance, or similar services. So even if the contractor's employee manual had 30.06 notice, it would only apply on their property, not on client property or POV.

[Alf]

Keep that in mind when you're handcuffed and headed downtown. Every time I carry, I remember that interpretation is still up to the LEO and up to you to get an attorney to get you out of it. I know when I'm legal to carry but everyone has to decide if the notice they were given is worth the worst-case scenario.

That's why I tell people don't carry in church.

[The Annoyed Man]

Keep that in mind when you're handcuffed and headed downtown. Every time I carry, I remember that interpretation is still up to the LEO and up to you to get an attorney to get you out of it. I know when I'm legal to carry but everyone has to decide if the notice they were given is worth the worst-case scenario.

That's why I tell people don't carry in church.

They can absolutely carry in church, unless the church is posted with a compliant 30.06 sign. That's the law. I carry in church every time, including on stage. My church is not posted 30.06. Therefore it is just as legal as walking into a grocery store.

TPC Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

• (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
  (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
  • (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
    (2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
    (3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
    (4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
    (5) in an amusement park; or
    (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
  (c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
  (d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
  (e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
  (f) In this section:
  • (1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
    (2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
    (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
  (g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
  (h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
  
  Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, Sec. 2
  
  
  (h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, was:
  • (1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
    (2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial officer and engaged in escorting the officer.
  
  Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222, Sec. 5
  
  
  (h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
  • (1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
    (2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
    (3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.
  (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Get that? The prohibition against carrying inside a house of worship does not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Section 30.06 is very specific in describing the signage requirements. If the church is not posted, you can carry. Period.