Open carry on Business property?

[P_Pac]

I'm wondering if you own a business property in Texas that's open to public, can you open carry? For example, if you own a mall, can you open carry in your mall?

Not that I own one and want to open carry, but just wondering..

[pbandjelly]

If you own a store (like many gun ranges/shops) you can OC alllllllllllllllll day.
cause it's your premise.

[longtooth]

in your own business for sure. I dont know about the Mall setting where the lease issue would make you still the "owner" or them the "lease holder".
Someone will give the best answer shortly.

[txinvestigator]

Ownership OR control of the premises.


Texas Penal Code;

§46.02. Unlawful carrying weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun,
illegal knife, or club.


§46.15. Nonapplicability.


(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:


(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control

[frankie_the_yankee]

I think where it gets complicated is where a property is sub-leased to others.

For instance, I own the real estate that a mall is located on in fee simple. But I have sold leaseholds to various stores who are the tennants of the mall.

"Ownership" of the individual leaseholds would lie with the people who hold the leases - the individual storekeepers.

In that case, I would say that I could carry openly and/or without a CHL in any of the common areas, but not in the individual stores.

The storekeepers could carry openly in their stores, but NOT in the common areas.

But of course IANAL, and I'm just speculating on these matters.

[longtooth]

That is why we need open carry.
Then every one can choose.

[txinvestigator]

I think where it gets complicated is where a property is sub-leased to others.

For instance, I own the real estate that a mall is located on in fee simple. But I have sold leaseholds to various stores who are the tennants of the mall.

"Ownership" of the individual leaseholds would lie with the people who hold the leases - the individual storekeepers.

In that case, I would say that I could carry openly and/or without a CHL in any of the common areas, but not in the individual stores.

The storekeepers could carry openly in their stores, but NOT in the common areas.

But of course IANAL, and I'm just speculating on these matters.

Your assessment is correct. The tenants spaces are "premises under their control". Ownership is not even used in the code; "your own premises and premises under your control".

[Flatland2D]

How far doesn that "control of the premises" extend?

I work in a small manufacturing plant and have keys to the shop. If I go to work at night, I'm often the only one there. Do I have "control of the premises?"

Reason I ask is that the shop is in a low income/high crime area with almost frequent robberies and at least one justified self defense shooting at the building next to us.

An extension to this, could I open carry with the shop owner's permission? At this point, no one there knows I carry.

[stevie_d_64]

I think where it gets complicated is where a property is sub-leased to others.

For instance, I own the real estate that a mall is located on in fee simple. But I have sold leaseholds to various stores who are the tennants of the mall.

"Ownership" of the individual leaseholds would lie with the people who hold the leases - the individual storekeepers.

In that case, I would say that I could carry openly and/or without a CHL in any of the common areas, but not in the individual stores.

The storekeepers could carry openly in their stores, but NOT in the common areas.

But of course IANAL, and I'm just speculating on these matters.

Your assessment is correct. The tenants spaces are "premises under their control". Ownership is not even used in the code; "your own premises and premises under your control".

Bingo!

[stevie_d_64]

How far doesn that "control of the premises" extend?

I work in a small manufacturing plant and have keys to the shop. If I go to work at night, I'm often the only one there. Do I have "control of the premises?"

Reason I ask is that the shop is in a low income/high crime area with almost frequent robberies and at least one justified self defense shooting at the building next to us.

An extension to this, could I open carry with the shop owner's permission? At this point, no one there knows I carry.

I would think the lease agreement for a business to operate within the premises of a general shopping mall arrangement would contain language that might give you some fits about the carrying of weapons either in or around your business, openly or concealed...Whether they are correct in doing so, is up to how much you as a business owner wish to pursue, if you want to use that facility for your business...

Strip centers usually have direct access in and out of your business, and not through some general conveyance, like they do in malls around the state...You may have some leeway there, and that may be more favorable to your carrying of weapons in your business...

And lease agreements are notorious for wiggling in stuff that tends to get you if there are any problems...

But thats just what I see...

[Flatland2D]

It may be worth adding that the shop I work at is not a strip mall or shopping center. It's an industrial area composed mostly of automotive shops and manufacturers. We have about 5 employees.

Also I'm not the owner or leasee. Would the owner have to work out the details (with the landlord) for me to open carry there?

[txinvestigator]

It may be worth adding that the shop I work at is not a strip mall or shopping center. It's an industrial area composed mostly of automotive shops and manufacturers. We have about 5 employees.

Also I'm not the owner or leasee. Would the owner have to work out the details (with the landlord) for me to open carry there?

Does your position give you control over the premises? Can you control access of those who can enter?

The manager of Dillards has control over the premises, the girl in the men's clothing department does not.

[Flatland2D]

Does your position give you control over the premises? Can you control access of those who can enter?

The manager of Dillards has control over the premises, the girl in the men's clothing department does not.

I don't know if I can answer that directly, but I can tell you more about where I work. My position doesn't grant me any special authority, like a manager, but I have been trusted with keys so I can have access whenever I need it. We do not deal with customers directly. There is no front desk or anything where a random person would need to come in and place an order. Under most circumstances, no one outside the company is in the shop. In fact, the owner discourages that kind of thing because of trade secrets. If I were there alone, I could turn away anyone I wanted because they don't need to be there (except other employees) since the business side is not conducted at the shop. I have not asked the owner about this directly, but I know he would support me doing this (turning away people, especially at night). Thanks for any more help.