"Texas Gun Owners Divided on Best Aaproach to Legalizing OC

[mamabearCali]

The problem with this argument is that it is an extension of the "you're either with us or you're against us" philosophy long espoused by the open-carry supporters like those found in VCDL, OpenCarry.org, LoneStar CDL, and more recently Open-Carry Texas. That's a blatant attempt to force others into supporting their issue and it has been an abject failure. The fact is most gun owners and Texas CHLs aren't the enemy of open-carry supporters, it's simply a matter of their issue not being our issue. Texas gun owners are far more concerned with who can carry and where they can carry than how they can carry. You seem to argue that open-carry supporters somehow deserve the support of all gun owners regardless of their own priorities concerning legislative and/or legal battles that lie elsewhere. That's unfounded. Open-carry supporters are no more entitled to widespread support than are campus-carry supporters, or those seeking to reduce the number of off-limits areas for CHL's, or those seeking to remove deferred adjudications from the definition of "conviction" for CHL eligibility purposes, or those who want to change knife laws. We each have our priorities and if we feel strongly enough to get involved, we join and support groups and organizations that share those goals. Rational people do not then label everyone outside that group as an enemy.

If a group of convicted felons organized to change Texas and federal law so as to allow them to own, possess and carry firearms, that would be their right. The fact that other gun owners and/or organizations didn't joint in their effort wouldn't mean those refusing to do so are anti-gun, anti-Second Amendment, or even in opposition to their goal. It would simply mean that their issue isn't our issue. However, this is precisely what the more radical open-carry supporters claim about CHLs and anyone else who doesn't join their quest. Taking the entire Texas gun-owner community as a whole, only a very small percentage care about open-carry one way or the other. Attacking them and the organizations representing them as being anti-gun, elitists, or any other pejorative term within their vocabulary is a poor method of attracting people to their cause.

Chas.

Mr. Cotton I do not want you to think I am ignoring what you said. I always take note when you address a topic. I have tried to take some time and to consider what you had said. I think you make excellent rational points.

I think one thing we may all forget is that a person who is willing to open carry by their very nature is more overt than a person who keeps their 38 snubby in their purse. My sister is much more of a reserved person than I am and thus she would not be comfortable carrying openly. I am more extroverted and don't give a darn what people think so I am more ok with OC. This is going to be even more exaggerated in a state that does not have a OC policy. The more reserved people won't be as comfortable with OC and are certainly not comfortable with OC in a place that is unfriendly to it. The more flamboyant will be the ones pushing the policy. So thus you get more flamboyant politcal moves. Anyone that is just an observation.

[bmwrdr]

Wow, I spent over a hour to read this thread and realize the different opinions here so I have to add mine.
1. From a logical point I do not think OC makes sense for following reasons.
a. As others already stated it does get the attention of others, positive or negative, either way. That is certainly not what I want!
b. My biggest concern would be a gun grabber. A gun in plain view will surely attract a criminal mind as well as an anti gun person. That is certainly not what I want!
c. Another worry would be mistakenly recognized as a LEO which means in my opinion I could be potentially responsible for confusion about my status.
2. From a social point of a view I'd say everybody should be able to carry either way but has to conform with the current law without an exception.
3. Watching the news, listening and talking to others I surely can say it is a shame how some express their opinion towards a LEO. I actually have no faith in a person publicly yelling at a LEO or any others, using banal and insulting verbiage.

The points above led me to the conclusion it is better to discard OC but gain discipline and skills in CC.
It also would make sense to look at demographics and find out how many would actually carry open if the law would be passed. I do not assume a high number of our population would.

[03Lightningrocks]

Wow, I spent over a hour to read this thread and realize the different opinions here so I have to add mine.
1. From a logical point I do not think OC makes sense for following reasons.
a. As others already stated it does get the attention of others, positive or negative, either way. That is certainly not what I want!

I don't think most folks would give the carry of a handgun in a holster on your hip much thought. The game being played with carrying military style rifles to events that are sure to provoke is ignorant. Not rebellious... ignorant. There is a difference.

b. My biggest concern would be a gun grabber. A gun in plain view will surely attract a criminal mind as well as an anti gun person. That is certainly not what I want!

If I were to open carry a handgun I would utilize some form of strap or "locking" mechanism style holster. Like cops use.

c. Another worry would be mistakenly recognized as a LEO which means in my opinion I could be potentially responsible for confusion about my status.

When I see Leo dressed in street attire and carrying outside the waistband they always have had a badge right near the weapon.

2. From a social point of a view I'd say everybody should be able to carry either way but has to conform with the current law without an exception.

I agree that we should follow the law.

3. Watching the news, listening and talking to others I surely can say it is a shame how some express their opinion towards a LEO. I actually have no faith in a person publicly yelling at a LEO or any others, using banal and insulting verbiage.

Most LEO are good people and are putting their butts on the line for the community. I agree they deserve our respect and co-operation. But I also think the occasional cop who abuses their authority deserves reported for their behavior but trying to argue with them on the street may not be a great idea.

The points above led me to the conclusion it is better to discard OC but gain discipline and skills in CC.

Open carry in itself would not be a bad thing. We just need to make sure we cover our six on concealed carry before we get it passed. My one and only concern is people posting signs that keep me from carrying concealed because seeing open carry scares them. If some here are right, so few will open carry that it may not matter. But we should address it to be safe. We don't want to move backwards on conceal carry. Maybe change the law so no sign can keep us out. All signs only apply to unlicensed concealed carry and open carry.

It also would make sense to look at demographics and find out how many would actually carry open if the law would be passed. I do not assume a high number of our population would.

I am not trying to nit pick your post. if it comes off like that I am sorry. I just have some things to say to each of your concerns and it is easier to put it in red by your list.

[bmwrdr]

Great, thanks. Did you ever find your .380?

[03Lightningrocks]

Great, thanks. Did you ever find your .380?

Yes I did. Last Monday. It was in my range bag. I was beginning to panic...LOL.

[TexasGal]

I did some reading the other night on a website devoted to open carry in Oklahoma. I was curious what they were discussing there since OC was recently adopted. I saw posts that were complaining members didn't often see people actually carrying openly and it was frustrating to them. They seemed to think anyone who was not carrying openly in businesses was somehow throwing away the right to do so after all the work that had gone into getting the law passed. I think they had imagined there were huge numbers of people who were eager to OC. I suspect it would be the same way here. If it were passed, relatively few people would OC daily besides the ones who are passionate about it. Such zealots are not our best representatives to a public weary of gun-related pressures. If it were legal here, I would not carry openly other than perhaps a few exceptions in rural settings. Biggest advantage might be the removal of issues if my gun is uncovered without my realizing it. I see no reason to give up the tactical advantage of concealment in most situations.

[mamabearCali]

Wow, I spent over a hour to read this thread and realize the different opinions here so I have to add mine.
1. From a logical point I do not think OC makes sense for following reasons.
a. As others already stated it does get the attention of others, positive or negative, either way. That is certainly not what I want!
b. My biggest concern would be a gun grabber. A gun in plain view will surely attract a criminal mind as well as an anti gun person. That is certainly not what I want!
c. Another worry would be mistakenly recognized as a LEO which means in my opinion I could be potentially responsible for confusion about my status.
2. From a social point of a view I'd say everybody should be able to carry either way but has to conform with the current law without an exception.
3. Watching the news, listening and talking to others I surely can say it is a shame how some express their opinion towards a LEO. I actually have no faith in a person publicly yelling at a LEO or any others, using banal and insulting verbiage.

The points above led me to the conclusion it is better to discard OC but gain discipline and skills in CC.
It also would make sense to look at demographics and find out how many would actually carry open if the law would be passed. I do not assume a high number of our population would.

I think it is great that you have considered all of those points. You are correct. For you....it would be best to CC. But just like I don't think every shirt in the store fits every person the same way. I don't think that because you have decided it is not for you, that it follows it is not for me.

I have never had a problem OCing where I live. I don't do it all the time, but sometimes I do OC. I have never, ever, had a confrontation with a LEO. I have never, ever, gotten mistaken for a LEO (LEO's don't walk around with four kids on their coat tails). A gun in plain view also tells the mugger...don't mess with this girl... pick another easier target. If you are worried about a person grabbing your gun, have retention. If a person attempted to grab my gun he would have to take me with him and he would quickly get a knife in him. Why don't muggers attack LEO's....because they know they are armed...it is a deterrent. Same with a visibly armed citizen. I conform to the law in my state very carefully.

Like I said, a person has to consider what they are comfortable with. It is good to think it through. It is good to decide where you stand on an issue for yourself. However just because you have decided it for yourself does not mean you should decide it for me.

[jmra]

Wow, I spent over a hour to read this thread and realize the different opinions here so I have to add mine.
1. From a logical point I do not think OC makes sense for following reasons.
a. As others already stated it does get the attention of others, positive or negative, either way. That is certainly not what I want!
b. My biggest concern would be a gun grabber. A gun in plain view will surely attract a criminal mind as well as an anti gun person. That is certainly not what I want!
c. Another worry would be mistakenly recognized as a LEO which means in my opinion I could be potentially responsible for confusion about my status.
2. From a social point of a view I'd say everybody should be able to carry either way but has to conform with the current law without an exception.
3. Watching the news, listening and talking to others I surely can say it is a shame how some express their opinion towards a LEO. I actually have no faith in a person publicly yelling at a LEO or any others, using banal and insulting verbiage.

The points above led me to the conclusion it is better to discard OC but gain discipline and skills in CC.
It also would make sense to look at demographics and find out how many would actually carry open if the law would be passed. I do not assume a high number of our population would.

I think it is great that you have considered all of those points. You are correct. For you....it would be best to CC. But just like I don't think every shirt in the store fits every person the same way. I don't think that because you have decided it is not for you, that it follows it is not for me.

I have never had a problem OCing where I live. I don't do it all the time, but sometimes I do OC. I have never, ever, had a confrontation with a LEO. I have never, ever, gotten mistaken for a LEO (LEO's don't walk around with four kids on their coat tails). A gun in plain view also tells the mugger...don't mess with this girl... pick another easier target. If you are worried about a person grabbing your gun, have retention. If a person attempted to grab my gun he would have to take me with him and he would quickly get a knife in him. Why don't muggers attack LEO's....because they know they are armed...it is a deterrent. Same with a visibly armed citizen. I conform to the law in my state very carefully.

Like I said, a person has to consider what they are comfortable with. It is good to think it through. It is good to decide where you stand on an issue for yourself. However just because you have decided it for yourself does not mean you should decide it for me.

IMHO the most important statement in your post related to this discussion is "where I live". If I lived in a very rural part of Texas the same would probably be true. But even though OC is legal in your state I bet when you get into more heavily populated areas people's attitude and reaction change drastically. I would even be willing to bet that a large majority of people in those areas don't have a clue that OC is legal.
It's not uncommon for us to hear about people in OC states (handgun) being harassed by police. La is an OC state, but OC a handgun in NOLA and assuming you live long enough to make it there, you are going to find yourself behind bars.
To me this all boils down to setting. If OC were legal in Texas and I was running around my small town outside the metroplex I might OC. If I were running around downtown Dallas I most definitely would not.
To wrap this up, I would much rather those leading our cause spend the political capital to get off duty LEO type carry (carry anywhere an off duty LEO can carry) for CHL holders than spend the same political capital on OC.

[bmwrdr]

Agreed, it makes sense to some and under certain circumstances. The benefit would surely be the fact you can't be fined if you accidentally expose your gun. But OC here in the DFW area wouldn't be an option for me. There are just too many around which just do not tolerate it. And why would I kick a sleepy dogs butt? Besides that I too like the advantage of not showing a firearm on me.

[mojo84]

I can remember back in the 80's, the ranch manager for the ranch between Odessa and Crane we leased for hunting wore a gun everywhere he went. He had an old style revolver and a cowboy style holster. I always assumed he just wore it on the ranch until I saw him in town at a local cafe wearing it. Asked my buddy about it and he said old Jim, or whatever his name was, wears that thing everywhere he goes and nobody cares.

[Jason K]

1. I support OC, but I don't support the protest tactics of OCTexas and the other OC groups lately. Violates my "Don't Be A Jerk" policy.

2. I would like to see a OK-style OC passed in TX. I would also like to see 30.06 modified where a business could prohibit OC with an "official" sign, but they have to jump through extra hoops to prohibit CC (personal, verbal & written warning given to every customer upon entry or somesuch).

3. Eventually, I want every TX citizen to be able to carry a pistol the same way that a plainclothes police officer carries....casually concealed most of the time, but no legal repercussions for openly displaying a holstered weapon.

[sunny beach]

The Constitution of the United States says what it says, no matter what its enemies say or wear.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The Constitution of the United States says what it says, no matter what its enemies say or wear.

Who gets to interpret it?

Chas.

[bmwrdr]

Very good points in every post on this topic. To be honest, while I was in service I was happy to take that stupid thing off my belt whenever I could. Having it on your hip while you work, walk, eat,... gets real old real fast. These days, with all the light weight guns available on the market the weight of the gun and ammo is not an issue anymore. I miss just one point of OC. What are the benefits besides being able to carry a bigger gun? The fact OC would out rule a accidental exposure of a CC gun and the size to carry I can not think of a benefit.
And my opinion is not to limit anybody or be against OC.

[MadMonkey]

Very good points in every post on this topic. To be honest, while I was in service I was happy to take that stupid thing off my belt whenever I could. Having it on your hip while you work, walk, eat,... gets real old real fast. These days, with all the light weight guns available on the market weight of the gun and ammo is not an issue anymore. I miss just one point of OC. What are the benefits besides being able to carry a bigger gun? The fact OC would out rule a accidental exposure of a CC gun and the size to carry I can not think of a benefit.
And my opinion is not to limit anybody or be against OC.

Some of us dress light in Texas summers... it's either carry a pocket gun or nothing for me. OC would allow me to carry a full-size gun, which is easier to shoot and faster to draw. I can only do that under a big coat right now.