Man killed after bumping Metro bus passenger

[frankie_the_yankee]

The CHLer got no billed by a grand jury. From the limited information available it appears that he a. was much smaller, b. retreated to the back of the bus, c. was followed by the BG, and d. had witnesses, plural, who testified that he acted in self defense. Finally you don't get a no bill if the prosecutor really wants to go after you. So we can infer that the prosecutor thought it was a good shooting. Given all that, why at this point is anyone on this board in doubt???

It seems pretty obvious to me.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Unless someone has a copy of the police report, then we don't know what the victim said. All we know is 1) media reports were inaccurate; and 2) the GJ heard the evidence and "no-billed" the victim because they believed the evidence supported his claim of self-defense.

Also, de-escalating a confrontation is desirable, even laudable, but it's not legally required before using self-defense. Be careful about making this your personal standard of conduct, unless you want to be held to that standard later. (This is not the same concept as the retreat duty.) Often there is simply no time to use what is taught in the CHL class about non-violent dispute resolution. Was there enough time in this situation? Did the victim try to avoid using deadly force and fail? Only the victim and the GJ witnesses know. There have been CHL shootings that appear to have been avoidable, but were nonetheless legally justified. With inaccurate information sources, it’s not possible to make a judgment as to whether this shooting is among them.

Chas.

[Greybeard]

Quote: "I can still recall the Ft Worth CHL self-defense shooting trial years ago where the press reports got it all wrong from the get go when it was clear from even the preliminary evidence that the delivery driver was cornered in his car by a violent attacker."

Hmmm ... ' Not sure if ya referring to another one or the infamous "original" CHL shooting in Dallas in early '96. If I recall somewhat more correctly , that one involved a CHLer by the name of Hale and a delivery driver by the name of Tavai. Incident involved them having bumped vehicle mirrors on West Mockingbird in Dallas (not Fort Worth). Tavai (delivery driver) got out and proceeded to pound upon Hale's head while Hale was blocked by traffic and strapped in by seat belt. Hale center-punched much younger and bigger attacker with single round of .40. That one too (to the dismay of some at the Dallas Morning News) was rather promptly no billed by Grand Jury.

The outcome of this bus incident in Houston is actually the second bit of semi-surprising "good news" that I've seen here in the past week or so. The other was a Grand Jury also no billing the 71-year old who used shotgun in broad daylight on guy beating out the windshield of his (unoccupied) vehicle ...

Let's hope that maybe some criminal types are reading the newspapers ...

[Darwood]

I'm somewhat reminded by this story of a situation I was privy to when I lived in California.

Long story short there was a homeless guy helping 3 kids and 2 young adults from Richman who had broken down at a gas station on their way home. The gas station was about 20 miles from Richman. The homeless guy finally got them some rides to the BART station (one of the rides was me, which is the long part of the).

When the 2 young adults and young kids went to go into their rides the homeless guy noticed that his cell phone was missing and accused one of the young adults of taking it. The bigger than the homeless guy young adult became upset at the accusation and charged the homeless guy. At that point the homeless guy pulled out a knife which caused the young adult to back down and get into the ride to the BART station.

The thing is the kids that were in my car called the big young adult and he admitted to them that he did in fact steal the poor homeless guys phone.

The point to all this is that when the homeless guy was charged it was quick. I was surprised at the speed at which he got a knife out. Things like this can happen fast. Also if this big guy backed down to a knife I can't imagine what the guy on the bus was like when he didn't back down to a knife. (the guy in my story was huge)

In the case on the bus in Houston it's hard to say, but seeing as it was a "no-bill" from a grand jury I have to give the guy the benefit of the doubt like others on here.

[stevie_d_64]

The other was a Grand Jury also no billing the 71-year old who used shotgun in broad daylight on guy beating out the windshield of his (unoccupied) vehicle...

I'm glad to hear about this one...There was a good discussion about this particular incident...And the group was kinda split on the whole justification issue...

I guess I didn't see the update on this one till you mentioned it...

Do you have the source link on the GJ findings???

That might be a good lick to post in a separate thread linking also to the original thread discussion here...

Just a suggestion...

[Mike from Texas]

Wow. Funny how the tables turn when actual facts are printed instead of liberal media propaganda. Lots of folks here were ready to string this guy up based on what the read from the very source that we normally discount as liberal garbage.

Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions until the FACTS are presented.

I'm just sayin'........

[casingpoint]

He pulled a knife, then a gun when the perp kept coming. Possibly the damnest case of bait-and-switch in the history of Texas. If you don't count marriage.

[fadlan12]

Bait and switch? Its not like he was enticing the aggressor.

[Venus Pax]

I don't think it was bait & switch.
I think it was his unwise attempt at deescalation.

[Mike from Texas]

I don't think it was bait & switch.
I think it was his unwise attempt at deescalation.

.................................

[stevie_d_64]

Wow. Funny how the tables turn when actual facts are printed instead of liberal media propaganda. Lots of folks here were ready to string this guy up based on what the read from the very source that we normally discount as liberal garbage.

Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions until the FACTS are presented.

I'm just sayin'........

I think this annoyed one participant here (a while back), and they thought my bringing it up (at that time) was ignorant or something...Good thing I don't really mind being classified as ignorant...But what the heck...

"News is just that, news...Not evidence in a court of law..."

You are absolutely correct about not jumping to conclusions these days...

[Lucky45]

Wow. Funny how the tables turn when actual facts are printed instead of liberal media propaganda. Lots of folks here were ready to string this guy up based on what the read from the very source that we normally discount as liberal garbage.

Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions until the FACTS are presented.

I'm just sayin'........

I think this annoyed one participant here (a while back), and they thought my bringing it up (at that time) was ignorant or something...Good thing I don't really mind being classified as ignorant...But what the heck...

"News is just that, news...Not evidence in a court of law..."

You are absolutely correct about not jumping to conclusions these days...

Here is what I said, and tell me where I implied you were ignorant. Plus everything I said then is still relevant and I haven't changed my opinion on this particular reply you are talking about. I thought we don't people bash on this forum, so I know I would never stoop to that level. I stay on the issue and not get my feelings hurt.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject:

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stevie_d_64 wrote:
News is news, not evidence...


I know that stevie. I would hope that everyone look at these discussions as a chance to get set in your mind on how you would personally react if faced with the same situation.
I don't know the people and will not be on jury, so don't care. Just using real cases as they come as discussing them with what you know. Because that is how it will be whenever you are faced with a situation involving a weapon. It will most likely be dynamic and changing all the time.
So what if we don't have all the information, then most of us have learned by now that there are lots of grey areas and everyday you should be looking to find them when it comes to using your handgun.

So just like brainstorming, we can hash out all the different ways this event could have taken place if a CHL holder was on board the bus (or wherever a future incident takes place) and we don't have to have all the facts.

This isn't a COURT, this is a discussion. As the fact become available, we will ALL fill it in. So everyone get off the "this is just a news report" horse. We know that.