One in the pipe - do you do it?

[jbenat]

Guns should always be treated as if they are loaded and you can bet mine usually are!

[jiannichan]

I was carrying an XD9SC cocked and loaded (which I guess is condition 1, because of the "safeties"). I now carry a 3.5" 1911 in condition 0.

[drjoker]

A buddy of mine carried with one in the chamber until recently. He had a baby and he is afraid that the toddler would find his gun and cause an accident if he were to accidentally leave his gun out or something. Life happens. Sometimes you do several things at once and one of those things get forgotten in the shuffle. His reasoning is that a toddler wouldn't have the strength to rack the slide on a Glock. It seems like a reasonable choice, given the circumstances.

If I were to have a toddler who is pre-shooting buddy age, I would carry the new 1911 smart gun with one in the chamber. http://www.smartlock.com/smartgun_detail.htm Otherwise, I, too, would not carry one in the chamber. As soon as the kid turns 7 years old, I'd keep one in the chamber and switch back to the Glock instead of the 1911.

I've had a few customers myself that don't carry with a round chambered. I prefer to refer to this firearm condition as "Condition Dumb." Here's a story from a dealer in Tennessee about a recent incident that emphasizes why "locked and loaded" is the only condition that your gun should be in.

"I'm sure you get customers coming in carrying guns with the chamber empty. They'll tell you "I just don't feel safe with one in the chamber." Here's something to share with them:

Customer comes in. He was driving around town about 9PM. Stopped at train crossing with train going through. Not many houses around. Car pulls up behind him. Guy jumps out, looks around. Guy comes up to the driver's side. Pulls 9mm pistol and shoots my customer in the arm. Customer is armed with Taurus .45, empty chamber. Gun shot disables customer's left arm. He manages to get one round racked into the chamber but not before the guy gets back in his car and starts driving off. Customer shoots at him through back window one handed and gun jams. Bad guy gets away (He was arrested in a separate incident later). I guess the gun deterred a car jacking, which is what the bad guy was up to. Empty chamber nearly cost my customer his life. Customer now carries his Judge in the car."

[Cedar Park Dad]

A buddy of mine carried with one in the chamber until recently. He had a baby and he is afraid that the toddler would find his gun and cause an accident if he were to accidentally leave his gun out or something. Life happens. Sometimes you do several things at once and one of those things get forgotten in the shuffle. His reasoning is that a toddler wouldn't have the strength to rack the slide on a Glock. It seems like a reasonable choice, given the circumstances.

If I were to have a toddler who is pre-shooting buddy age, I would carry the new 1911 smart gun with one in the chamber. http://www.smartlock.com/smartgun_detail.htm Otherwise, I, too, would not carry one in the chamber. As soon as the kid turns 7 years old, I'd keep one in the chamber and switch back to the Glock instead of the 1911.

I've had a few customers myself that don't carry with a round chambered. I prefer to refer to this firearm condition as "Condition Dumb." Here's a story from a dealer in Tennessee about a recent incident that emphasizes why "locked and loaded" is the only condition that your gun should be in.

"I'm sure you get customers coming in carrying guns with the chamber empty. They'll tell you "I just don't feel safe with one in the chamber." Here's something to share with them:

Customer comes in. He was driving around town about 9PM. Stopped at train crossing with train going through. Not many houses around. Car pulls up behind him. Guy jumps out, looks around. Guy comes up to the driver's side. Pulls 9mm pistol and shoots my customer in the arm. Customer is armed with Taurus .45, empty chamber. Gun shot disables customer's left arm. He manages to get one round racked into the chamber but not before the guy gets back in his car and starts driving off. Customer shoots at him through back window one handed and gun jams. Bad guy gets away (He was arrested in a separate incident later). I guess the gun deterred a car jacking, which is what the bad guy was up to. Empty chamber nearly cost my customer his life. Customer now carries his Judge in the car."

I support him. Although I may not agree strange things can and do happen, and if he's more comfortable thats good for him.
He just needs to practice fast cocking a lot. Regardles he needs to have some personal safes around so that his CC is always always locked up completely when not on his person, including bathroom etc. There is no room for error here.

[EvoGTR]

Locked and loaded, M&P 40 only safety I have is my finger and a good holster.

[jmra]

Always have one in the pipe. BUT have a friend that is not very confident, doesn't have one in the pipe and makes sure his safety is on.

If the 20 foot rule applies for you, how far would you have to extend that range for him?

[bauer]

I returned from Afghanistan last August. Depending on the threat level we would carry either empty or a magazine inserted. Some would chamber a round but this was not the way the guidelines dictated. Some were willing to take the chance that if they had a ND that it was on them to face the consequences.

The problem with not having one chambered is obvious when things go south. I personally worked side by side with the afghan army and police. We had an incident where one of the afghan soldiers decided to turn his weapon on our team of trainers. As luck would have it our team came through without any injuries. The afghan soldier was not so lucky and got to meet Allah. From this point on, once we returned from lock down, the way I carried was what I thought was best for my chances of survival.

Too often policies are put in place to cover the group as a whole. Not all soldiers, sailers, airmen and marines are capable or mature enough to do the right thing or to have their mind in the right place. So the politically correct thing to do is to make it as safe as possible for those handling the weapons. This is a hard decision for the leadership to make but probably the easier one versus explaining to the spouse or parent that their son/ daughter was killed by a ND. For those that carried an m4 or m16 it only takes about a half second to charge a round. It's possible to charge a round while bringing the weapon up to the ready position as well. I know there may be a time where that half second mattered. The 9 mm is a different story. Trying to grasp the slide and chamber a round under stress could cost you much more time.

I think policies overseas are dependent on the environment that you as a soldier, sailor, marine, etc are in. While we were operating out of a FOB in South Baghdad the Brigade policy was that all weapons were Green (no magazine, no round chambered) on the FOB. After every patrol we'd hit the clearing barrels and unchamber all M4s, M9s, Shotguns, and crew served weapons. The second we were lined up at the gate waiting for Squadron clearance to roll out, unless it was a QRF call, everything went Red. Carrying anything loaded on the FOB was grounds for UCMJ, this was a Brigade policy that applied to all. Granted, it wasn't meant for the guys in line units and platoons but more for the BSB, HQ, and other various support units. Still, they wouldn't even allow an exception for us as the FOBs QRF/reconnaissance platoon.

As that FOB drew down and we moved on to a single Troop Joint Security Station (JSS), policy changed. Our Troop was the only unit on the JSS and therefore policy fell to our CO. He allowed us to carry our personal weapons as we saw fit especially since we somehow ended up with SOC contractors that had Ugandans working our only entrance point and several perimeter towers . Numerous local nationals also worked the JSS and obviously there was also an Iraqi Federal Police contingent with us. The CO took no chances as we were easily outnumbered and any support from the rest of our Squadron or other units was at least 30-45 mins away.

The point I'm trying to make is that in the military the decision as to what condition soldiers can carry in while on base comes down to the situation. If our FOB had come under attack the .5 a second it took to load a mag and chamber a round was nothing as the place was a sprawling complex with hundreds of soldiers. The JSS on the other hand was a completely different story; every second would have counted if we had to repel a ground assault. The JSS also was only manned by a combat line unit, the FOB on the other hand had anything and everything the Army had to offer as far as personnel, many of which had only be to the range in basic training or once thereafter. Handling loaded weapons was not their strong suit.

[bauer]

My 1911 always has one in the pipe.

Day to day life never allows you to know if, when, or where a threat will appear. Every second counts, period.

[flintknapper]

^^^^^^^^

Same as Bauer.

1911...........always loaded, cocked and locked.

[Bill]

Just curious; are there any statistics that anybody knows of on unintentional discharges while carrying? I hear a lot of stories of Glock owners shooting off body parts so of COURSE Glocks (and probably all other striker-fired guns without safeties) are dangerous. My question is, how many of these unintentional discharges are actually the gun malfunctioning and how many are the operator "malfunctioning".

Yes, guns are dangerous but that why we carry them. I have put 100k rounds through my Glocks while having over 400hours of every different kind of tactical class imaginable. I have never considered my Glock as more dangerous than any other gun. Have never seen nor heard of a Glock going bang by itself, in fact I never have personally heard any gun firing although I am sure there has been some malfunctions within the pistols that have happened but never with a Glock three safety system


But there are many negligent discharges with all guns and not really such things as accidental or unintentional discharges as many attest to. Accidental or unintentional discharges are politically correct way of saying I was stupid. So yes if you have a habit of putting your finger on the trigger when your not supposed too, handling your gun loaded in unsafe places, not knowing how to holster and don't live by the four safety rules then no matter what you carry you are dangerous, not to the bad guy but everyone

My Glocks never come out of their holster until all conditions are met.

FYI- I would advise against participation in fighting classes while wearing concealed holsters although I have not seen any discharges but when the classes are moving fast, especially making transitions to rifle, knife, etc.... man make mistakes
I will not allow it in my class period

BTW- I am not flaming anyone, but I hear this all the time, usually from new gun owners. I can attest to the fact in fighting scenarios I would take a Glock 17 over any other pistol. Pull trigger "BANG" 18 times in a row, I hate mag changes while running (hobbling)

Respectfully submitted, Bill

[StrangeBulge]

Yes ... dread reholstering while seated in the car.

[RPBrown]

Cocked and locked 24/7

[nightmare69]

Yes ... dread reholstering while seated in the car.

The best method for car carry, perfectly safe and legal and much quicker access to your firearm.

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[Commander Cody]

Yes.

[StrangeBulge]

Yes ... dread reholstering while seated in the car.

The best method for car carry, perfectly safe and legal and much quicker access to your firearm.

[youtube][/youtube]

Yes, for the Glocks have the MIC and the saf-t-blok. Either one works great with the beach towel in the car, with the weapon stuffed btw the seat and center console. I would not recommend the saf-t-blok for carry and use it to store the glocks loaded.

MIC is ok for Mexican Carry while standing and walking short distances, however I have found it to be extremely uncomfortable to sit while in Mexican Carry or Appendix Carry. Holstering a Mexican Carry or Appendix Carry while seated in the car is completely out of the question.

Normally holster iwb while leaving in the morning. Get in the car and stop at the gas station. Disarm in parking lot at work with saf-t-blok and a cabled lock box under front passenger seat. Iwb goes into laptop bag and comes into the office. If I have an errand for the return trip i get to do the dreaded reholster while seated in the car. If there are no errands to run the glock goes in the MIC and gets covered with the towel and i avoid the dreaded reholster while seated.

Glock stays loaded all the time.