700 sps tactical 20+ inch group at 100 yards

[multiple68]

New 700 sps tactical, trying to zero and was getting horrible grouping. Every now and then would get 2 shots right on top of each other, then another flyer on the other side of the target. Multiple experienced shooters with same results. Checked screws and all were fine. I swapped to a new scope but haven't had a chance to try out yet.

Is there anything else I should check?

[Sidro]

Is this a new scope ? Sounds like crosshairs are floated. Typical occurrence with the pattern you are seeing and all screws being tight.

[The Annoyed Man]

What are you shooting by way of ammo? Different loads will perform differently.

What bullet weights? This matters greatly, and is closely tied to the next question.

What barrel twist? If the twist rate isn't right for the bullet weight you're shooting, you're going to get bad results.

What caliber? (The SPS Tactical is available in .223 and .308) The Remington website says that the .223 version is a 1:9 twist and the .308 version is a 1:12 twist. For purposes of accuracy, in the .223 Remington, 1:9 limits you to 69 grain bullets and under, with 55-62 grain probably (but not necessarily) being optimum. In the .308 Winchester, 1:12 limits you to bullets in the 150-168 grain range. Here's the thing: The Remington website information isn't always accurate. MY 700, a 26" heavy barreled varmint rifle in .308 I bought back in 2007, was supposed to be 1:12 according to the website. However, the printed catalog said it was 1:10. That is a significant difference, and it will greatly affect accuracy dependent upon bullet weight. I contacted the factory and gave them the serial# of the gun and explained the information contradiction. They got back to me to say that 1:10 was correct; and shooting 175 grain Matchkings has born that out, doing significantly better than 168 grain Matchkings.

Until you can answer those questions, it would be difficult for anybody to give you any kind of valuable input. And after those variables have been sorted out, only then will addressing optics and shooter technique be worth any effort.

Please note: if yours is .223, DO NOT fire any ammo labelled "5.56 NATO" or "5.56x45mm" in it, as .223 Remington chamber/leade specs will not safely accommodate 5.56 ammo.

[multiple68]

Is this a new scope ? Sounds like crosshairs are floated. Typical occurrence with the pattern you are seeing and all screws being tight.

Yes new red field scope that I then upgraded to a leupold vx2. Haven't tried the leupold yet

[multiple68]

What are you shooting by way of ammo? Different loads will perform differently.

What bullet weights? This matters greatly, and is closely tied to the next question.

What barrel twist? If the twist rate isn't right for the bullet weight you're shooting, you're going to get bad results.

What caliber? (The SPS Tactical is available in .223 and .308) The Remington website says that the .223 version is a 1:9 twist and the .308 version is a 1:12 twist. For purposes of accuracy, in the .223 Remington, 1:9 limits you to 69 grain bullets and under, with 55-62 grain probably (but not necessarily) being optimum. In the .308 Winchester, 1:12 limits you to bullets in the 150-168 grain range. Here's the thing: The Remington website information isn't always accurate. MY 700, a 26" heavy barreled varmint rifle in .308 I bought back in 2007, was supposed to be 1:12 according to the website. However, the printed catalog said it was 1:10. That is a significant difference, and it will greatly affect accuracy dependent upon bullet weight. I contacted the factory and gave them the serial# of the gun and explained the information contradiction. They got back to me to say that 1:10 was correct; and shooting 175 grain Matchkings has born that out, doing significantly better than 168 grain Matchkings.

Until you can answer those questions, it would be difficult for anybody to give you any kind of valuable input. And after those variables have been sorted out, only then will addressing optics and shooter technique be worth any effort.

Please note: if yours is .223, DO NOT fire any ammo labelled "5.56 NATO" or "5.56x45mm" in it, as .223 Remington chamber/leade specs will not safely accommodate 5.56 ammo.

I will get this info later today, but it is a .308 and I think all rounds were 150

Would ammo cause not only that spread but also inconsistency? Some were high, some low. Some left some right

[The Annoyed Man]

What are you shooting by way of ammo? Different loads will perform differently.

What bullet weights? This matters greatly, and is closely tied to the next question.

What barrel twist? If the twist rate isn't right for the bullet weight you're shooting, you're going to get bad results.

What caliber? (The SPS Tactical is available in .223 and .308) The Remington website says that the .223 version is a 1:9 twist and the .308 version is a 1:12 twist. For purposes of accuracy, in the .223 Remington, 1:9 limits you to 69 grain bullets and under, with 55-62 grain probably (but not necessarily) being optimum. In the .308 Winchester, 1:12 limits you to bullets in the 150-168 grain range. Here's the thing: The Remington website information isn't always accurate. MY 700, a 26" heavy barreled varmint rifle in .308 I bought back in 2007, was supposed to be 1:12 according to the website. However, the printed catalog said it was 1:10. That is a significant difference, and it will greatly affect accuracy dependent upon bullet weight. I contacted the factory and gave them the serial# of the gun and explained the information contradiction. They got back to me to say that 1:10 was correct; and shooting 175 grain Matchkings has born that out, doing significantly better than 168 grain Matchkings.

Until you can answer those questions, it would be difficult for anybody to give you any kind of valuable input. And after those variables have been sorted out, only then will addressing optics and shooter technique be worth any effort.

Please note: if yours is .223, DO NOT fire any ammo labelled "5.56 NATO" or "5.56x45mm" in it, as .223 Remington chamber/leade specs will not safely accommodate 5.56 ammo.

I will get this info later today, but it is a .308 and I think all rounds were 150

Would ammo cause not only that spread but also inconsistency? Some were high, some low. Some left some right

Yes, ammo can account for inconsistency, and that is basically the difference between match ammo and regular production ammo. Match ammo may not give you super tight groups, but those groups will be consistent; whereas the other stuff may give you one group size now, and a different group size later. But you'll never know the rifle's capabilities without trying some match ammo. So that begs the question, was it 150 grain match ammo, or was it just 150 grain inexpensive hunting ammo or FMJ? If you are shooting a .308 SPS with a 1:12 twist, I wouldn't waste too much time and money on cheap ammo....unless you were just plinking and not that concerned with accuracy. Me personally, in that rifle, I wouldn't shoot anything except A) Federal Gold Medal 168 Grain Match BTHP, B) Hornady 168 Grain A-MAX® Superperformance® Match™, or C) the approximate equivalents of these two loads from other manufacturers such as Lapua.

Also, get yourself a box of 165 grain Federal Fusion. This is very good hunting ammo and tends to be pretty accurate. I use it for hunting in my 700, which gives me groups varying from .5" to 1.5" at 100 yards, depending on how much coffee I drank that day. But at 165 grains, it is within the operating window for a 1:12 rifle, and group sizes in that range are more than adequate for reliable hunting accuracy.

Lastly, if you have the capability, try some handloads. I developed a handloaded 175 grain matchking which consistently exceeds Federal Gold Medal 175 grain match in my rifle. The Federal might give me .5" to .75" groups, and my handload gives me .375" groups.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

Mine really liked 168 gràin MatchKings. This was a fast 4 shot group at 100 yards.

[MechAg94]

Check your scope and rings for even the smallest bit of looseness. Even a small movement will move you around the target.

[multiple68]

So was able to try the rifle out with the new Leupold scope today shooting Federal Gold Medal 168 Grain Match BTHP. I was finally getting some decent groups...anywhere from .45" to .85" at 100 yards depending on the shooter.

Now another issue. The groups were decent, but it was shooting a little high and left. We would adjust the windage, but it didnt really seem to make much of a difference, despite pretty drastic changes. Then all of a sudden it would be shooting low and right. It never seemed to settle where we wanted it despite having tight groups between scope adjustments.

Could this be another issue (sticking turrets?), with a now different scope, or do I just need to put more rounds through the rifle? Overall, it will be fine for the hunting I will be doing this season, but I know this rifle is capable of more.

[MoJo]

Is your scope level? If it is out of level with the rifle problems like what you describe happen. This tool is inexpensive and very handy to have.



It is available from Brownells

[The Annoyed Man]

So was able to try the rifle out with the new Leupold scope today shooting Federal Gold Medal 168 Grain Match BTHP. I was finally getting some decent groups...anywhere from .45" to .85" at 100 yards depending on the shooter.

Now another issue. The groups were decent, but it was shooting a little high and left. We would adjust the windage, but it didnt really seem to make much of a difference, despite pretty drastic changes. Then all of a sudden it would be shooting low and right. It never seemed to settle where we wanted it despite having tight groups between scope adjustments.

Could this be another issue (sticking turrets?), with a now different scope, or do I just need to put more rounds through the rifle? Overall, it will be fine for the hunting I will be doing this season, but I know this rifle is capable of more.

Could be that the scope isn't level, like Mojo said. It could also simply be a factor of how large the adjustment increments are in the knobs at a given range. You mention a Leupold, but which Leupold, with which reticle and which knobs?

A rifle like an SPS wants a tactical scope with some sort of milling reticle. It wants a scope where the adjustment increments match the stadia on the reticle. If you have Mil-dot reticle, then you want a scope with .1 mil adjustment increments on the knob. If you've got a reticle with stadia lines in MOA, then you want adjusters that click in MOA. Not all scopes, even some very expensive scopes, are set up that way. But the ones that are set up that way are MUCH easier to zero (see below).

A scope with adjusters that match the reticle will never change the number of clicks necessary to move POA at any given distance. Example: My tactical scopes use .1 mil adjusters and mil reticles. I put the crosshairs on the target and fire. Bullet impact lands .2 mil left, and .3 mil high, I crank in 2 clicks right and 3 clicks down, and the second shot should land right on the bullseye. And this works whether you're at 100 yards, 368 yards, 894 yards, or 1,132 yards. No fuss, no muss. Ditto for a scope with 1/4 MOA adjusters, and 1/4 MOA stadia lines on the reticle.

ALSO.... How much is "a little high and left," and how much is "low and right?" EXAMPLE: if your rifle has 1/4 MOA adjusters at 100 yards (the MOA value will be different at different distances.....1/4 MOA at 100 yards = 1/2 MOA at 50 yards, etc.), then each click of windage or elevation will move the bullet impact 1/4" left, right, up, or down, depending on which knob is being turned in in what direction. So you haven't told us how far the bullet impact travelled to get from "a little high and left" to "low and right." If that distance from the center of the first group to the center of the second group is 1/2", then you're about as close to spot on as you're going to get it because the minuteness of the adjustment necessary is outside the capability of the adjusters to deliver. If your adjusters were 1/4 MOA at 100 yards and those two groups were only 1/2" apart, then you would have had to use 2 clicks down and two clicks right to move the group center that half inch right and half inch down. HOWEVER, if the first group is 2-3" high and to the left, and the second group is 2-3" low and to the right, that's a 4-6" transition in both planes, and that is really significant. If that's the case, then something ain't right, because even a cheap Leupold should be better than that.

SO.... if you want a more specific answer to your question, please provide these three pieces of information:

1. Exactly what model of Leupold scope are you using?

2. How far apart were the two groups, center to center?

3. How many clicks on each of the adjuster knobs did it take to move the second group that far from the first?

Also, one last thing to consider......are you using the scope cranked all the way up to full magnification, and what power of magnification is that? (I'm thinking of parallax errors here....)

[android]

I've put everything from .308 GMM 168g to crappy Walmart whatever they have that day through my 700P. I've never had anything more than 1.5" off from where I was shooting at 100 yards, and I'm sure that was me flubbing it up. But, I have Seekins rings and a Larue mount holding down my Leupold scope and I could probably beat somebody to death with it and I doubt it would lose zero.

What is important is a rock solid scope mount and a scope that will hold up to your .308 recoil.

If I was having your problems, I'd be looking at the mount and the scope, in that order.

[Beiruty]

We should take all our LR rifle to a 500 yr range and have a field clinic for those "sick" rifles.

[suthdj]

We should take all our LR rifle to a 500 yr range and have a field clinic for those "sick" rifles.