No Need For NRA Certfication? Here's What The Auditor Said

[sjfcontrol]

Missed all of you as well but, I've been tied up with one thing or another for a couple years. Will certainly strive to be more active going forward. Someone posted a new thread about an email I guess we all got from DPS. All I can say is what a waste of time. It doesn't clear anything up as the RSD isn't likely to change its requirements in September because there won't' be enough time to deal with it at that point. As I mentioned before, I'm just going to move forward with the NRA certification. I just have to clear my schedule and get my company to stop using the mushroom farmer's school of management.

Would that be "kept in the dark and fed manure"

Same management technique DPS uses for it's CHL program.

[MamaK]

Proof of graduation from a handgun instructor school that uses a nationally accepted course designed to train persons as handgun instructors. (Applicants under this section must regularly instruct others in the use of handguns.)

Look at the last section about a "nationally accepted course." It says that we can qualify by taking a "nationally accepted course", but it doesn't say whether the DPS CHL Instructor's course uses "nationally accepted" standards. So the question is never really answered by DPS.
Is this a clever trick for DPS to get a bunch of us NOT to take another class, and thereby lose our licenses?

I would call the state directly - "Contact us by phone:
(512) 424-7293 "

**I was just thinking that the fourth choice might actually be referring to being a Federal Law Enforcement Training academy instructor, or military pistol instructor. Both would fit the definition of "national". again, call DPS or email them.

[Charles L. Cotton]

DPS has notified instructors about sending in your CHL-90 with supporting documentation for NRA, TCLEOSE, or "other" instructor credentials. There's no reason to call DPS and ask for clarification or further information at this time.

I renew my strong recommendation that anyone who does not have one of these certifications register for an NRA Basic Pistol Instructor Class ASAP. If you read the code, it's clear that there are two qualifications for being a CHL Instructor: 1) successful completion of the CHL Instructor class; AND 2) certification as a firearms instructor by NRA, TCLEOSE, or "other." The "other" must be a nationally recognized certification for pistol instruction.

I cannot give details, but I was part of a conference with DPS and various stakeholders a few weeks ago. DPS wanted to find a way not to require it for existing instructors and various ideas were discussed. Unfortunately, the Code is absolutely clear as to instructor eligibility requirements. The DPS CHL Instructor certification cannot legally meet the requirement for the secondary certification in the "other" category because 1) the CHL class is not a course to teach handgun shooting; and 2) the statutory requirement is for two certifications.

Not a sole involved likes this situation, but this is the law. I tried to find a way around it, but none exists. There's no reason for anyone to blast DPS for enforcing the law or for not creating artificial and legally unsupportable exceptions. All it would take is a law suit by an anti-gunner and a lot of CHL instructors could find themselves subject to an injunction prohibiting them from teaching until they meet both eligibility requirements.

Do not take my post as indicating that DPS has made a final determination or that they have exhausted all efforts to find a way to help CHL instructors. I'm just relating the facts and encouraging instructors to get NRA certified instead of risking their CHL certification. As of now, there are 8 months in which to obtain NRA certification. Every month one waits increases the chance they will not be able to find an open class in time for the Dec. 31, 2013 renewal deadline. If you already have a handgun certification that you think may qualify in the "other" category, then by all means email your CHL-90 and credentials to DPS ASAP. They will contact you and let you know if that certification meets the "nationally recognized" requirement. If it does, you're good to go. If not, you will still have time to get NRA certification. (In case someone is wondering, I'm an NRA Instructor, but I'm not an NRA Training Counselor so I don't teach instructor classes.)

Chas.

Sec. 411.190. QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTORS. (a) The director may certify as a qualified handgun instructor a person who:

• (1) is certified by the Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education or under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, to instruct others in the use of handguns;
  
  (2) regularly instructs others in the use of handguns and has graduated from a handgun instructor school that uses a nationally accepted course designed to train persons as handgun instructors; or
  
  (3) is certified by the National Rifle Association of America as a handgun instructor.

(b) In addition to the qualifications described by Subsection (a), a qualified handgun instructor must be qualified to instruct persons in:

• (1) the laws that relate to weapons and to the use of deadly force;
  
  (2) handgun use, proficiency, and safety;
  
  (3) nonviolent dispute resolution; and
  
  (4) proper storage practices for handguns, including storage practices that eliminate the possibility of accidental injury to a child

.

[Jumping Frog]

Charles, there is also a bit of a variation on the chicken and egg dilemma that I believe exists with the NRA Instructor certification.

If you are a new NRA-certified instructor that subsequently teaches only Texas CHL classes, the NRA will not renew your NRA Instructor credentials. You have to teach a minimum number of NRA-certified classes as a new Instructor to maintain your certification. Thus, we could be looking at Texas CHL Instructors who have to re-qualify as an NRA Instructor every two years.

When I looked into becoming an NRA Instructor, I believe that is the way the Training Counselor explained it. I could be mistaken, but it is worth someone more knowledgeable than I looking into this possibility.

Brgrds,

Bob

[Charles L. Cotton]

Charles, there is also a bit of a variation on the chicken and egg dilemma that I believe exists with the NRA Instructor certification.

If you are a new NRA-certified instructor that subsequently teaches only Texas CHL classes, the NRA will not renew your NRA Instructor credentials. You have to teach a minimum number of NRA-certified classes as a new Instructor to maintain your certification. Thus, we could be looking at Texas CHL Instructors who have to re-qualify as an NRA Instructor every two years.

When I looked into becoming an NRA Instructor, I believe that is the way the Training Counselor explained it. I could be mistaken, but it is worth someone more knowledgeable than I looking into this possibility.

Brgrds,

Bob

We need to get through this CHL Instructor renewal (2013) and this is something we need to address legislatively in 2015.

Chas.

[RottenApple]

Charles, there is also a bit of a variation on the chicken and egg dilemma that I believe exists with the NRA Instructor certification.

If you are a new NRA-certified instructor that subsequently teaches only Texas CHL classes, the NRA will not renew your NRA Instructor credentials. You have to teach a minimum number of NRA-certified classes as a new Instructor to maintain your certification. Thus, we could be looking at Texas CHL Instructors who have to re-qualify as an NRA Instructor every two years.

When I looked into becoming an NRA Instructor, I believe that is the way the Training Counselor explained it. I could be mistaken, but it is worth someone more knowledgeable than I looking into this possibility.

Brgrds,

Bob

According to my TC there is no minimum number of classes you have to teach to renew your NRA Instructor certs. There may have been n the past, I don't know. I never asked what the requirements used to be. But even if Mr. Crowe was mistaken, it's not difficult to find an instructor who needs some assistance, volunteer your time, and get credit for a class or 3.

[mikeloc]

Mike Lochabay
NRA Instructor since 1989.

[mikeloc]

I emailed the CHL-90 to DPS April 23rd and never even received an acknowledgement that they received it.

sent to RSD_LRS_CHL@dps.texas.gov


Mike

[sjfcontrol]

I emailed the CHL-90 to DPS April 23rd and never even received an acknowledgement that they received it.

sent to RSD_LRS_CHL@dps.texas.gov


Mike

Same here.

[MamaK]

(In case someone is wondering, I'm an NRA Instructor, but I'm not an NRA Training Counselor so I don't teach instructor classes.)

Chas.

The counselor classes seem to be scheduled when they get enough students. They recently had one in Houston, so there might be more instructor classes popping up by summer. The cost for the counselor class is somewhat intimidating.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Charles, there is also a bit of a variation on the chicken and egg dilemma that I believe exists with the NRA Instructor certification.

If you are a new NRA-certified instructor that subsequently teaches only Texas CHL classes, the NRA will not renew your NRA Instructor credentials. You have to teach a minimum number of NRA-certified classes as a new Instructor to maintain your certification. Thus, we could be looking at Texas CHL Instructors who have to re-qualify as an NRA Instructor every two years.

When I looked into becoming an NRA Instructor, I believe that is the way the Training Counselor explained it. I could be mistaken, but it is worth someone more knowledgeable than I looking into this possibility.

Brgrds,

Bob

According to my TC there is no minimum number of classes you have to teach to renew your NRA Instructor certs. There may have been n the past, I don't know. I never asked what the requirements used to be. But even if Mr. Crowe was mistaken, it's not difficult to find an instructor who needs some assistance, volunteer your time, and get credit for a class or 3.

You are correct. In the past, there was a minimum number of classes required to renew, but there is no such minimum currently. I'm talking a belt and suspenders approach by saying this is something we should address legislatively in the future, in case the NRA decides to reinstate a minimum number of classes to renew. Don't take this as a hint, I don't serve on the Education & Training Committee. In fact, I doubt the requirement would be reinstated for a number of reasons.

Chas.

[RossA]

I can teach basic handgun marksmanship and safety without any NRA certification. I have been doing it for years and the NRA certification will do nothing for this part of my training. The decision to enforce this part of the law, which has not been enforced in years, makes it look like the state is simply trying to make it more difficult for us to keep our certification.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I can teach basic handgun marksmanship and safety without any NRA certification. I have been doing it for years and the NRA certification will do nothing for this part of my training. The decision to enforce this part of the law, which has not been enforced in years, makes it look like the state is simply trying to make it more difficult for us to keep our certification.

You're right, we can teach without any credentials. I did it for many years, but having NRA credentials carries weight with an increasing number of folks just getting into shooting. You really can't blame people who know nothing about firearms wanting to see that any potential instructor has been certified to teach by a recognized organization. It also makes very good insurance coverage available for only $300/annually and this covers everything you teach, including classes of your own design.

DPS didn't ignore the NRA instructor requirement in the past, then change its position. They just missed it in the rush to get the program set up. It was only recently discovered and then only because the new administration in that department ordered a complete review of their operation. Now that they realized their error, DPS has no choice but to comply with the statutory requirements. Instructors without a second certification are lucky that no anti-gun person or group became aware of this fact earlier, or they would have filed suit to disqualify those who do not meet the statutory eligibility requirements.

As I said earlier, DPS is not the least bit happy about this situation, nor is anyone else. (Okay, perhaps there are some NRA Training Counselors who are grinning, but I doubt even that.)

Chas.

[sjfcontrol]

I can teach basic handgun marksmanship and safety without any NRA certification. I have been doing it for years and the NRA certification will do nothing for this part of my training. The decision to enforce this part of the law, which has not been enforced in years, makes it look like the state is simply trying to make it more difficult for us to keep our certification.

You're right, we can teach without any credentials. I did it for many years, but having NRA credentials carries weight with an increasing number of folks just getting into shooting. You really can't blame people who know nothing about firearms wanting to see that any potential instructor has been certified to teach by a recognized organization. It also makes very good insurance coverage available for only $300/annually and this covers everything you teach, including classes of your own design.

DPS didn't ignore the NRA instructor requirement in the past, then change its position. They just missed it in the rush to get the program set up. It was only recently discovered and then only because the new administration in that department ordered a complete review of their operation. Now that they realized their error, DPS has no choice but to comply with the statutory requirements. Instructors without a second certification are lucky that no anti-gun person or group became aware of this fact earlier, or they would have filed suit to disqualify those who do not meet the statutory eligibility requirements.

As I said earlier, DPS is not the least bit happy about this situation, nor is anyone else. (Okay, perhaps there are some NRA Training Counselors who are grinning, but I doubt even that.)

Chas.

So, what's changed? Why aren't the anti's suing to invalidate all the CHL licenses that have been issued since 1995?