Loading Magazines

[cbunt1]

Sorry if this has been addressed before, but I'd like to poll the group on the following:

Can a student receive help loading magazines for their proficiency test? I have elderly people that can't seem to physically load their mags and probably won't ever be able to and people that are new to their gun or using a loaner and just not used to doing it. Both groups can shoot and pass their test. Is it legal under the current rules for them to get help loading their mags?

Legally: The law doesn't make any stipulations about such things. I've helped students with magazines, either because they were having issues (pressure of the testing process, spotlight on them, etc.) Many shooters can handle loading up A magazine, but not 50 rounds in short order. Because the CHL is a state-sponsored license, and is subject to the "reasonable accomodation" portion of the ADA, we might even have a duty to help -- provided that a student shows they "CAN" to a reasonable degree.

We asked the exact same question in my CHL Instructor's class and were told that the DPS position is that if a student can prove they can load a single magazine, that the range officers would help with the rest (this is for instructors taking the shooting test at DPS, by the way).

Personally, it's a judgement call. Show me you CAN (load a few rounds, or a magazine), and I'll either help or do it for you--maybe I can even show you a better way, or introduce you to a tool or two that makes it easier (Uplulas, etc.).

I sometimes have some heartburn over this issue. While I don't really think we should have a distinction on the license between semi-auto and non-semi-auto, I can't help believing that IF we're going to have the distinction, it should mean something. In practice, using a SA is different than using a revolver; but one is not more difficult than the other, and it's not a "tiered" manual of arms. BUT...the way the qualification is administered, it's functionally irrelevant anyway. We do no reloads "on the clock" which is where at least half of the difference is...Yes, SA's can jam, but contrary to popular belief, so can revolvers. And your ability to effectively operate a SA pistol has nothing to do with your ability to effectively operate a revolver. Competition shooters (IDPA, IPSC, ICORE) show us that all the time when they switch guns.

But I digress into a "soapbox" issue for me as an instructor and shooter. The answer is yes--you may help load magazines for students. The caveat is that you need to satisfy yourself that your student CAN handle the semi-auto. And remember that the qualification is more about the rounds on paper than loading and unloading/administrative handling of the firearm. I prefer to instruct at a higher level than that, but that's the letter and spirit of the rules.

[Keith B]

I will assist students loading a magazine once they have shown me they know how to properly do it. Many times I do it as a matter of speed because they don't have the strength or may have arthritis and are slow loading and it helps move the shooting along.

[A-R]

Agree with previous responses. As instructor, one of my jobs is to verify that the student can properly utilize the type of gun for which they will be licensed to carry. Much as I dislike the SA v NSA designations on CHL, that is the law and if a student cannot show me at least once that they have the ability to load a magazine how can I in good conscience verify they have demonstrated ability to use a semi-auto handgun? If they can't show me at least once, perhaps they need to qualify NSA.

But I do NOT need to see them load every round into the mag. Load up one mag for me (even with an UpLula is OK) and I'm convinced and then happy to accommodate alternatives (me, spouse, friend, classmate loading rest of your mags).

[goheeled]

It is not written that you can not assist with mag loads, thus you may. We are here to instruct, demonstrate and assist.

[TexasGal]

I know speed loaders are allowed on the range for Instructor quals by the DPS. I used one. Dang arthritis. If someone can at least demonstrate they can put the rounds in properly and insert the magazine, I see no reason to make them load all 50 rounds unassisted if it is too hard on their hands or they are really slow.

[jmra]

I would think that those who are physically unable to load a magazine need a CHL as much if not more than anyone else.

[longtooth]

I would think that those who are physically unable to load a magazine need a CHL as much if not more than anyone else.

THis is true. My position is the same as most above.
Show me you can load several & then I tell them you will never have to load 50 rds in a fire fight.
I would rather have your hands shooting than getting tired loading a Mag.
It is not a character flaw it is a time issue on the range. Let me help you for time sake.
I can usually load for 2 by the time the rest of a shooting line is through loading. Rare line if I cant.

One thing I do not allow any more. Experience is the best teacher.

No husbands loading for the wife. Too many times they think they have to coach & instruct or even worse: just tell them what they are doing wrong. Usually while they are talking they are not loading either. Have had to just tell a couple. Load her mags & let her shoot. If I dont know them personally husbands cant load for wives on my line.

[jb03]

When I took my class, we were partnered up with another student at the range. The non-shooter would handle the box of ammo and reloading the mags. All in the name of time.

[jimd1981]

I hold that the shooter MUST show he/she can load one magazine. You don't JUST have to use your hands. I regularly have older students, and I've demonstrated (and sold!) more than a few MagLULAs during class. One student of mine only had the use of one arm, and he was able to load a magazine just fine.
After you show me you can load one magazine, your lane buddy can/will load for you. If I have students sharing a firearm, they get to be lane buddies - otherwise it's luck of the draw (kinda sorts itself out, really.)

So far, this system works fine.

Further to qualification:
The shooter MUST demonstrate proficiency in inserting the magazine and loading/unloading the pistol, and demonstrate safe gun handling skills AT ALL TIME on the range (always point downrange, finger OFF the trigger when not on target, etc.). Any stoppage MUST be handled by the shooter. I dissuade head shots.

I haven't had any issues with Husbands/Wives loading for each other, personally.

[Abraham]

At this point, I can still load my magazine/magazines, but as time progresses my hands/wrists are increasingly arthritic. What does that mean? Painful to move the joints in the hands and wrist. Heck, in the morning, I can barely endorse my name on a check or credit card purchase. Actually, I slowly draw my name...

I use the pistol magazine loader my Glock 19 came with when range practicing. Trying to stuff 15 (I stop now at 13/14) rounds into a magazine is no longer an option without it.

Helping geezers with their arthritis doesn't mean their incompetent, it simply means it's painful for them to load the rounds into the magazine.

[paperchunker]

I hold that the shooter MUST show he/she can load one magazine. You don't JUST have to use your hands. I regularly have older students, and I've demonstrated (and sold!) more than a few MagLULAs during class. One student of mine only had the use of one arm, and he was able to load a magazine just fine.

What part of DPS Instructor Training, Regulations or law are you basing this on?

We were not told in Instructor Class that this was a requirement.

My first CHL class was at Academy for Firearms Training in Grand Prairie. The Instructor was (former) State Rep Ray Allen. According to the old blue certificate I still have, his Instructor Number is "00000001". They had an indoor range adjacent to the classroom. When we went into the range in groups, they had a 9mm Glock with 2-20 rd and 1-10 rd magazine pre-loaded at each station.

I do not see the issue or the justification for such a requirement

[philip964]

If I remember correctly. We were paired up one loaded behind while one shot. If I remember the whole thing was pretty stressful. I had one stovepipe. I assume it was because I was so nervous as I had never had one before or since.

Anyway I did not load the ammunition in the magazine that I shot. I did of course load the ammunition of my partner.

I don't own a Glock, but I have shot and loaded their magazines. They seem very hard to load. I think there was a device that was used to push them in there. My guns are easy, but I do not have arthritis.

[Keith B]

Here's the way I look at it. You use preloaded magazines in your gun when you carry. You will more than likely not ever have to reload a magazine during a shootout. If the person can show me they can correctly load a couple of rounds, then for speed sake I will load for them or let their shooting partner do it. They can take all the time in the world to load a mag while sitting at home in front of the TV, but we have a schedule to keep in class and need to keep it moving. One really slow person in each round of a large class can delay you quite a bit. And there is nothing in the regs that says they have to load their own rounds. They just have to prove their proficiency and safety with a firearm and shoot a qualifying score.

[Crossfire]

Here's the way I look at it. You use preloaded magazines in your gun when you carry. You will more than likely not ever have to reload a magazine during a shootout. If the person can show me they can correctly load a couple of rounds, then for speed sake I will load for them or let their shooting partner do it. They can take all the time in the world to load a mag while sitting at home in front of the TV, but we have a schedule to keep in class and need to keep it moving. One really slow person in each round of a large class can delay you quite a bit. And there is nothing in the regs that says they have to load their own rounds. They just have to prove their proficiency and safety with a firearm and shoot a qualifying score.

100%