No Need For NRA Certfication? Here's What The Auditor Said

[RossA]

After my audit today, the auditor asked if I had any questions for him. I asked about the NRA certification, and told him that I was probably going to take my NRA class next weekend. He responded that there is a lot of misinformation about that, and assured me that NRA or TCLEOSE certification is NOT necessary. He showed me an email that he had sent to one of his superiors asking about it since he has been getting a lot of questions about it.
The email he showed me quoted the language of the statute which says (summarizing) that NRA, TCLEOSE or OTHER training to nationally recognized standards is required. He said that our DPS training that we received in the instructor's class IS "nationally recognized" and therefore we don't need additional training from NRA or anyone else.
Throwing this out there for comment. Maybe Charles Cotton has some input on this. I'd kind of like to know one way or the other, since this seems to contradict what a lot of people are being told.
I don't want to take an entire weekend and spend a bunch of money talking an NRA class that I don't need. OTOH, if I do need it, I don't want to mess up and not take it.

[longtooth]

My understanding is that we are required to have 2 certifications. Only one is the state.
I am registered & pd. in full for both classes next month. Putting me in a TERRIBLE time bind. Not so much $$s but time.

[RossA]

That's why I posted this here. I think that most of us are under the assumption that we have to get NRA in addition to our DPS course, but my auditor said no. Since there is a contradiction in the information, I want to get this issue aired so I will have a better idea of what to do.

[longtooth]

Did I say Meee Tooo

Not ready to send an email asking for my $$s back quit yet though.

[gthaustex]

Perhaps there is a difference in renewals versus original instructors? I recently went through the instructor class. I was originally signed up for the abbreviated 4 day class last September, and then DPS cancelled it. When they came back to me, they said the only thing they now offered was the 5 day instructor class. The documents accompanying that information said the following:

Experience as a firearm instructor is required. This class will not teach the student how to be a firearms instructor.

It didn't affect me in terms of signing up, as I teach at a range and have NRA certs. However, I know of several people who were told they needed to provide proof of the above before DPS would assign them to a class.

Also, I don't know if they are tooting their own horn to fill firearm instructor classes, but I saw this from the Texas Concealed Handgun Assoc (TCHA):

For the past several weeks rumors have been circulating regarding training standards for Concealed Handgun Instructors in Texas.
Following a meeting today with personnel at the Department of Public Safety, we are now able to give out accurate information regarding these rumors.
Under the standards laid out in Government Code Chapter 411 a certified concealed handgun instructor must also maintain a certification under one of the following provisions:

1) Certification as an NRA pistol instructor,
2) Certification by TCLOSE as a pistol instructor,
3) Certification by the Private Securities Board as a pistol instructor,
4) Certification as a pistol instructor under some other nationally recognized program of instruction.

This standard will now be applied to all currently certified instructors during the renewal year of 2013. This means that all instructors who do not already meet one of these standards must gain one of these certifications prior to your renewal as a certified handgun instructor for Texas CHL.

Now, that said, if the auditor said that the firearms portion of the CHLI classes as it was taught met those requirements as a nationally recognized program, then that is good news for those doing renewals.

In the CHLI class I was in, we covered minimal firearms material over a couple of hours, maybe. Certainly not enough to train someone who knows nothing about firearms, how to teach someone else who knows nothing about firearms, to a decent level of competency. That said, the CHL program as it is, is not really meant to teach someone firearms from the ground up. Some instructors may do that on their own time as an additional service, but the basic 10 hrs is not that. Perhaps for new CHLIs, they are requiring the certs to avoid a case of the blind leading the blind????

[RossA]

When the government is involved, it's often a case of the blind leading the blind! Or should I say the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.
Waiting to hear more info so I will hopefully know what the heck to do ( or not do).

[longtooth]

What to do Go to a class.

What not to do Dont put it off.

[RossA]

If I was told by a DPS Regulatory employee that I don't have to take the class, I'm sure that the same auditor (and maybe others) have told other instructors the same thing.
Lots of conflicting information flying about.

There is a Q&A on the DPS website about this, but the "answer" doesn't really answer the question at all:

Questions

In order to become a certified CHL instructor, you must meet all the eligibility criteria under the Texas Government Code, §411.172 and §411.190. This includes proof you are currently certified to instruct others in the use of handguns (firearm instructor) as listed below:

Certified by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education (TCLEOSE) as a firearm instructor - supporting documentation includes a copy of your TCLEOSE firearm instructor certificate. (Must be a firearm instructor, basic instructor is not sufficient.)
Certified under the Texas Occupations Code, Chapter 1702, (Private Security Act) as a firearm instructor – supporting documentation includes a copy of the Private Security instructor registration.
Certified by the National Rifle Association of America (NRA) as a firearm instructor – supporting document includes a copy of certificate of training and a copy your unexpired NRA credentials. ( Must be certified to instructor handgun/pistol)
Proof of graduation from a handgun instructor school that uses a nationally accepted course designed to train persons as handgun instructors. (Applicants under this section must regularly instruct others in the use of handguns.)

Look at the last section about a "nationally accepted course." It says that we can qualify by taking a "nationally accepted course", but it doesn't say whether the DPS CHL Instructor's course uses "nationally accepted" standards. So the question is never really answered by DPS.
Is this a clever trick for DPS to get a bunch of us NOT to take another class, and thereby lose our licenses?

[234sportsman]

I just got home a few minutes ago from the instructors course. The auditors BOSS was there and the auditor gave wrong info. This question was discussed in depth. New instructors will not be allowed into the class without NRA or TECLEOSE Certs.

As for renewals, the process for those issues has yet to be decided and is even under consideration now in the legislative session by State lawmakers.

We were told that auditors are Contractors.

To the original poster...if you are NOT already CHL instructor , it is mandatory that you have one of the other Certs.

[RossA]

I am already a CHL Instructor, and I will need to renew by the end of the year.
So you were told that there is no decision yet on whether renewing instructors will have to take a different class? I wonder how long they are going to keep us in limbo?

[234sportsman]

I will tell you what my understanding of what we were told....

Because there are MANY bills that have been introduced during the legislative session that is going on right now in Austin, the decision as to what will be done with instructors renewals is pending until the end of the session...which ends at the end of May (unless there is a special session called).

Because of all the proposed legislation in many forms and versions, there is not an idea right now of what the legislature will do that will affect this process.

[MasterOfNone]

...He responded that there is a lot of misinformation about that...

If only there were some organization that had the power to tell us the facts.

[Crossfire]

I will tell you what my understanding of what we were told....

Because there are MANY bills that have been introduced during the legislative session that is going on right now in Austin, the decision as to what will be done with instructors renewals is pending until the end of the session...which ends at the end of May (unless there is a special session called).

Because of all the proposed legislation in many forms and versions, there is not an idea right now of what the legislature will do that will affect this process.

So, effectively, if they decide that certifications will be required of renewing instructors, those instructors will have less than 6 months to get this done before their expiration date of 12/31/2013.

Ladies and gentlemen, if you might need this, I certainly would not wait!

[The_Busy_Mom]

I just got home a few minutes ago from the instructors course. The auditors BOSS was there and the auditor gave wrong info. This question was discussed in depth. New instructors will not be allowed into the class without NRA or TECLEOSE Certs.

As for renewals, the process for those issues has yet to be decided and is even under consideration now in the legislative session by State lawmakers.

We were told that auditors are Contractors.

To the original poster...if you are NOT already CHL instructor , it is mandatory that you have one of the other Certs.

IIRC, we were told that auditors are Civilians, not Contractors, but I digress. I believe wholeheartedly that DPS isn't going to keep Instructors in limbo any longer than it takes for the legislative session to end. It would be crazy to put out a bunch of memos right now, knowing that there could be big changes to the legislation in the future (read 1-2 months). As a current instructor, qualified before Jan.1, 2013, if you want to be in complete adherence to the law, then get the NRA certification no matter what. If you want to wait to see what plays out in the legislation, then wait. Whatever you choose, it is your choice. But the statute says you need the certification. The statute doesn't give excpetion for renewals, for itintials, or for 'short class/long class'. If reading the statute, I don't believe there is any 'grey' area.

PS - I know that when new instructors get back from class, we think we know everything . I don't claim to know anything other than what I was tested over, and what I take away from the class. My post is what I have taken away from the class, and it was muy bien!!!!

TBM

[longtooth]

I am registered & would advise all Instrructors that do not have the classes to not wait too.