Knife on the Freeway

[C-dub]

Wait, the second driver first gave his insurance and phone -- THEN threatened her with a knife not to report it? That sounds insane.

Don't report the accident to the police. He didn't care about the insurance company.

Still seems bizarre to say, "here's who I am, and how to contact me. But I'll cut you if you report it."

Yeah, I thought so too, but if reported he'd deny it, of course, and he also has her information. That's problematic.

[gthaustex]

Wow. What a nut job. If I were threatened with a deadly weapon like that, my reaction would be to draw and shoot until the threat was gone. If the perp were theoretically able to realize what I was doing and drop the knife prior to me shooting, then hopefully that would reset my OODA loop and I would hold off on completing the trigger press. If he is close enough for us to talk and threaten me with a knife, he is also close enough to kill me with that knife. After all that, I am calling the police either way and going through all the requisite matters that go along with dealing with them regarding the situation.

[Av8rtx]

It is hard to imagine an insurance company having a policy that covers someone driving on a suspended license.

Does it sound like "keep your mouth shut about the license and the insurance will take care of you, but if you squeal, then the insurance finds out about the suspension and you have to fix your own car?"

Having an insurance CARD doesn't mean he has insurance. It could be he was just buying time with the promise of an insurance payment, and threat with the knife so he could get out of the situation. I doubt this guy had insurance or anything else legitimate, there was more going on than was obvious.

[K.Mooneyham]

It is hard to imagine an insurance company having a policy that covers someone driving on a suspended license.

Does it sound like "keep your mouth shut about the license and the insurance will take care of you, but if you squeal, then the insurance finds out about the suspension and you have to fix your own car?"

Having an insurance CARD doesn't mean he has insurance. It could be he was just buying time with the promise of an insurance payment, and threat with the knife so he could get out of the situation. I doubt this guy had insurance or anything else legitimate, there was more going on than was obvious.

I thought about that, and about the possibility that the car HE was driving might have been stolen. He gives the card for the actual owner of the car, and some fake phone #, no sweat on him as long as law enforcement doesn't get called. He's long gone and no way to track him.

[Munk]

If you draw a deadly weapon on me...

[RottenApple]

If you draw a deadly weapon on me...

You'd shoot a guy holding a Texas flag????

[Munk]

If you draw a deadly weapon on me...

You'd shoot a guy holding a Texas flag????

[o b juan]

Would Conflict and Dispute resolution have been a tool here to descalte said verbal threat with a displayed weapon??

[TexasGal]

I'm a bit skeptical of a person joining and immediately posting a very provocative story guaranteed to make people talk a lot about drawing and shooting. It does not make sense to give someone your phone number and insurance only to then make it clear you may harm them if they call the police. Something does not add up. Either the guy was a total nut and/or giving her false info, or the story is suspect.

[Excaliber]

I'm a bit skeptical of a person joining and immediately posting a very provocative story guaranteed to make people talk a lot about drawing and shooting. It does not make sense to give someone your phone number and insurance only to then make it clear you may harm them if they call the police. Something does not add up. Either the guy was a total nut and/or giving her false info, or the story is suspect.

I agree. However, there's no shortage of folks out there who do things that make no sense whatsoever to the rest of us.

If the story is true and reasonably complete, the outcome clearly indicates that deadly force was not needed to resolve it because none was used and the situation in fact deescalated with no injury to anyone, which is the best possible outcome.

Justification for using deadly force in that situation is another matter. Under the circumstances as described, the jeopardy part of the triad of circumstances needed to use deadly force lawfully is arguably incomplete. According to the story, the implied threat to use the knife was not immediate - it would only occur if the other party called the police. One could argue this one either way. In a practical sense, it would come down to what the innocent party believed the real intentions of the knife holder was and, if she decided the threat was immediate and deadly force was the only or best reasonable option, how to explain that to responding police after the threat had been neutralized.

[anygunanywhere]

Someone draws a knife on me I will draw and go to slide lock on him.

Logical conclusion.

Anygunanywhere

[RottenApple]

Someone draws a knife on me I will draw and go to slide lock on him.

Logical conclusion.

Anygunanywhere

When I said I'd "wait" to shoot until seeing the aggressor's reaction to my drawn gun, I did not mean to imply that I'd wait any significant amount of time. What I meant was that if he dropped the knife and backed off as soon as he saw my firearm, I wouldn't have pulled the trigger. If he continued to act threatening (and in my view, still holding the knife & not backing off constitutes a threat).... Well....

[RPBrown]

The sad part about reporting it now is that nothing will be done about the assault. There were no witnesses, the LEO did not see it, and there is no evidence that it happened. The OP's word against the aggressors. Sad but true.

As for the post, I would have pulled my weapon and prepaired to fire. If he dropped his knife, perhaps I would have held up, perhaps not depending on the time between. Just based on the facts listed in the post, she would have been justified but thats my .02 and IANAL.

[sjlong]

First let me thank everyone who responded to my post.

I tried to post as accurately as possible what my wife reported to me. Yes, it certainly does seem rather stupid of the individual to have given identifying information, and to supposedly have insurance, but a suspended license, and then threaten with a drawn knife. But this is what she reported to me. She said she did report this to the police when they arrived at the scene, and gave them the identifying information. She also said that the individual has outstanding warrants, which, I believe, she learned after the cops ran a check on his ID. Needless to say, they were very interested in pursuing this individual.

As to what to do if you are the victim in this scenario, if I read my Texas law code correctly, you are justified in using deadly force if you are being assaulted, and assaulted means that you are receiving, or are in immediate fear of receiving, bodily harm or death, from another person. Further, that assault is aggravated if the other person is using a deadly weapon. Seems to me that under these circumstances, if you just shot the guy and he died by the time the cops arrived, they would find him there with his knife, blade exposed, in his hand, and your prints are nowhere on his person or the knife. A knife with an exposed blade is a deadly weapon for sure, so it would seem to me to be the end of the story: I can't see how a grand jury would indict under those circumstances and under the Texas law code. If it would be argued that you used excessive force, or over-reacted, what is the difference if the perpetrator took out a pistol and showed it to you, threatening you if you reported to the police? Both the knife and the gun are deadly weapons, and I can't imagine anyone arguing that you would not be justified in shooting the perp if he took out a gun and threatened you.

My main concern, as I stated in my original post, is that there are thousands of people in Texas, maybe even millions, who are driving illegally, or who have outstanding warrants, who might very well pull this on you in a similar situation, and that if they get a free pass to threaten victims with knives on the roads not to report to the police, aren't we just enabling this and letting them get away with it? Maybe somebody needs to send the message that you cannot threaten someone with a weapon and not get shot?

[bdickens]

Something kind of smells about this story.

I will tell you that if someone threatens you with a knife, you are absolutely justified in shooting.